Michael Gelb, author of How To Think Like Leonardo Da Vinci and The Art Of Connection

Michael Gelb, author of How To Think Like Leonardo Da Vinci and The Art Of Connection

Jason Hartman starts the show by discussing why age isn’t what it used to be. He looks at homeownership in the US and whether it’s obsolete. In the 10th episode, Jason goes on the topic of real estate with New York Times bestselling author Michael Gelb. Gelb is the Founder and President of the High-Performance Learning Center. He starts by explaining that the Art of Connection has turned into a massive tsunami of spam in our lives. He speaks on respecting all stakeholders as a tip for achievement. He ends by noting that great relationships depend on balanced energy exchange between all participants.

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This show is produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit Hartman media.com.

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Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the company LEED solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 1:03
One of the unique strategies I implemented a few years ago fit with my 10 commandments of successful investing, especially number eight, thou shalt borrow to accelerate wealth and reduce risk. And number 10 thou shalt only invest in tax favored assets. So my money grows tax free, and I can leverage down payments. My friend Pat Donahoe his team at paradigm life got me started, and I have a few accounts with him now. Check out this perpetual wealth strategy at be your bank.com Welcome to the creating wealth show, Episode 890 890. This is your host, Jason Hartman. Thank you so much for joining me today as we talk about how to think like Leonardo da Vinci seven steps to genius every day, and the author Michael Gulp is also the author of The Art of connection So we will dive into that here in just a moment as we go off topic, and every 10th episode, we talk about something that is not specific to personal finance or real estate investing. But it all seems to go back into that same big equation. So you know what I say? It’s an amazing time to be alive. You know what else I say geography is less meaningful than it’s ever been in human history. And I also talked about how age ain’t what it used to be. And I am constantly reminded of this, as I am just about to finish watching all of the James Bond films in chronological order. I’ve never done that before. I yes, I have seen a lot of those over the years. But you know, it’s pretty amazing to see. Here’s what you do. Okay. You know how I told you several episodes ago about how I got a little fascinated for a while of looking up the network. have all these actors and actresses right? And that was pretty interesting. I don’t know how they really can know people’s net worth. Certainly I think that’s a bit of a guess for sure. But it’s not as much of a guess, when you look up the actor or actresses age in the film. So as you’re watching it, you just go to Wikipedia. And you see that that James Bond character in the 1962 version of Dr. Know, or the 1968 version of whatever James Bond I can’t remember, film was in 1968 are right around then, or 1972 or 1986 or so on and so on, or 1995 and you just see it is truly amazing how the perception and the just the general look and vibe of age has radically changed. Over the years, why am I talking to you about this? Because the fact that we are living longer, and we are living healthier. And now granted, this does not apply to everybody, unfortunately, because we have huge health problems, diabetes, obesity, etc, etc, women who have opted to get all of the rights and at the same time, the problems associated with male life. In other words dying early have stress related diseases. That was normally the province of men. Men always had that but now women are getting it too. So hey, equal rights, right? So you see how things are changing. But by and large for the people who are being conscientious and at least relatively healthy, right throughout their lives. They’re living longer and healthier. And this has wide ranging impacts. The economy on government entitlement programs and this again, how to do this is discussed in detail on the longevity and biohacking show that I co host with Fernando. You can check that out of course on iTunes or any podcast platform, the longevity and biohacking show. It is truly amazing. Now why am I thinking about this today? Well, because I’ve got a birthday coming up. Yes, another one is rolling around and I gotta tell you, with just a few exceptions, I feel great. Sometimes I cannot believe like watching those James Bond movies. I’m thinking I’m older than that guy is and you know, of course james bond is a total stud, right? You know, kicks everybody’s butt and does amazing things, etc, etc. But the, the by and large perception of age has massively massively changed. 40 is the new 95 Okay, etc, etc. So what does this mean to you? This means is good as it is, it presents a problem, the problem is more responsibility falling on each of us to prepare and plan and to some extent, to delay gratification, right? Because the government’s not going to be there for us. We know that we’ve got a plan, we’ve got to invest wisely, so that we can live the good life for our entire life. That’s just very, very important. It Again, became apparent to me in watching those James Bond films, and you know, Bond, what an amazing formula that that movie, you can see why that that franchise was and is so successful. Now, in the old days, they would go to all these exotic locations and back then well, even now, but to a much lesser degree. People didn’t go to those places. They didn’t get to travel to all these things. Sonic locations. And that film. Those films, I should say, expose that so much of that world to everybody that just really never saw it before. So, really just an amazing franchise, it really is. But you know, it’s sort of formulaic, and so on and so forth. Now, I’ll tell you one other thing that became apparent to me, you know, while I talk about the millennial generation, and how they are so different in terms of their real estate habits, and the way they approach real estate and homeownership, regardless of you know, and I’m not talking about the financial side of it now, because most of them are saddled with a, a mortgage, but they didn’t get a house with it, right, because they have these ridiculous obnoxious student loans. And that’s a whole scam we’ve talked about, thank you to the government who created that problem by and large, by ensuring student loans, making them abundant in the marketplace, creating In a false market that really wasn’t there, because they, again had to get their little stupid hands into capitalism and mess it all up. And so they started insuring the student loans, and then they became plentiful and lenders wanted to make the loans and tidal wave of money started flowing at these universities and they just with their disgusting greed, of course took that money What else should they do? I don’t really blame them. But they’re certainly not part of the solution. They are part of the problem. And so they hiked the tuition prices massively. They hired marketing firms, they put in beautiful gyms and food courts and you know, bought up all the real estate in their town and now they’re huge what their huge real estate investors imagine that I guess they think real estate is the most historically proven asset class in the world. Okay, no surprises. There. So yeah, as I’ve got this birthday coming up, right? I’m thinking about age. Again, we all do this from time to time, and how that has changed, and how much each of us have a head in our life and how we’ve got to plan for that. And we’ve got to invest for it. I talk again about the the Gen Y thing, right. So let’s go back to that subject for a moment. Lest I get off on a tangent here. You know, I bet Leonardo da Vinci was a lot more focused than I am. Yeah. I Well, maybe not. I don’t know. Well, we’ll see what our guest says here in just a moment. But Gen Y, I gave this speech to a group of real estate developers and finance people the other day, and I was talking about how Gen Y views the world in a much more portable format portable. So this portability concept, I think is kind of a big Deal. I’ve talked many times about autonomous vehicles and how the self driving car is going to change everything and put downward pressure on the three primary drivers of real estate valuation. What are they, of course, location, and then location. And then the third one is also location. And that is becoming less important because geography, just like age is less meaningful than it’s ever been in human history. So, as Gen Y views the world in a more portable format, how does that connect with James Bond? I’ll tell you how. Look at some of those old James Bond movies. And if you notice, all of the older ones, the evil villain always had this big. This big plant this big headquarters, this big piece of what real estate a big piece. of real estate, and, you know, you’d go in and they’d have their Rocket Ships or the missiles or that big radar dish. And, you know, they would want to destroy the world and take over and, you know, feed their greedy fantasies of Apocalypse. Right? And that’s what the evil guy did in the former James Bond movies. But as those movies went through the years, okay, and maybe Moonraker remember, Moonraker that was what in the mid 80s I believe I don’t have anything in front of me, but you know, I just saw it. And, and maybe that was the last one with like, the big piece of real estate, if you will, right. The big stuff, non portable stuff, right. You know, the space shuttles and, and all these people working there and the plant and the diabolical plant that was gonna, you know, take over the world and, you know, do the bio attack on Earth, blah, blah, blah, right? Well, no, there was one more Of course, we’ve got this venture Alliance trip coming up. And it’s going to be at the Ice Hotel in Sweden. Okay. And that’s coming up next year, it’s going to be great. You know more to come on that. That’s going to be a venture Alliance adventure because we don’t just call the mastermind group, the venture Alliance, we call it the ad venture Alliance. And so Sweden will be an adventure, right? Rather than our typical weekend retreats like the one we’ve got coming up in Palm Springs, California. Check that out at venture Alliance. mastermind.com, of course, little commercial message there. So the James Bond movies, in the old days, the bad guy needed this big plant, right, this big base, this big headquarters, and he was not portable at all. But in the newer James Bond movies, like for example, last night, I just watched Casino Royale with Daniel Craig. There’s no bad guy With a big headquarters, the bad guy is portable, right? These organizations are much more portable. And that I think is a big deal when it comes to housing, you know, with the sharing economy with instant access to rides and transportation through ride sharing with Airbnb and VR, Bo and all of these different sharing economy models. I think that that whole American Dream concept of owning a home and decreasing flexibility and decreasing portability and increasing one’s obligations and increasing cost for the occupant and increasing you know, just this, this sense of being kind of trapped, right. I think that is fading. Its fading pretty quick. As I’ve said before, I’m probably One of the few people in real estate who thinks the homeownership rate is too high. Yeah, I do. I think we still got to drop about seven points to be where we should be. The homeownership rate, in my humble opinion, should be somewhere around 55%. And it’s too high. So we are going to see I believe, homeownership decline. And I talked about this in my speech to the real estate developers and how that’s changing things. And how seniors here let me just grab one of my pieces of notes here. We are on a 10th show, by the way, we’re not talking about real estate, but I’m so addicted, I can’t help myself. So I talked about By the way, we have john burns of john Byrne’s real estate consulting. He will be one of our keynote speakers at the upcoming meet the masters of income property event our conference in La Jolla, California in January. Be sure to register for that at Jason hartman.com. Tickets are selling like hot cakes. Gluten Free hotcakes. I don’t know. Do they have gluten free hug? Yeah, I guess they do. Okay. So anyway, he coined a term called Serbian, Serbian. And Serbian is the concept of suburban and urban put together, right? Where these higher density mixed use communities. And I talked about this in front of this audience, just the other day, basically, are becoming really popular. And, you know, I’m headed to Austin on my birthday. I’m gonna be on an airplane. What a joy, right, but it’s not a long flight. And I’m going to be meeting with Tim Ferriss, you all know Tim Ferriss right in hopes that I can do an interview with him and get him on the show. He’s hard to get. We’ve been trying for a while to have Tim Ferriss on the show with us. So in Austin, there are more and more of these serban communities right, where you’ve got this sort of higher density mixed use living Commons. concept in other words, retail office residential kind of all in one, but it’s out in the burbs. It’s in the suburbs. And why is this getting more popular? I think some of the developers are anticipating this with the self driving car. But here’s what I wanted to tell you really back on the topic of renting, right? So this amazed me. You ready for this, folks? Then we’ll get to our 10th show here. See, I can’t help not talking about real estate. I just like it too much. Okay. This article talks about how the boomer generation but the largest demographic cohort in American history, before Gen Y, right. The boomers are just slightly smaller than Generation Y or the millennial generation and these people 55 to 74 years old, right? A huge percentage of these people are renting. Not because they have to. They’re renting by choice. They have a house Sold net worth on average of are you sitting down to $150,000? I know to some of our listeners, that might not sound like a lot, but as an average, and when you parse that out across America and some of these lower cost of living areas, a $250,000 household net worth, it ain’t bad. Okay. I hope all of you and I hope we can help you will have a much higher household net worth than that, but that’s not bad. That’s not the household net worth of a renter. Okay. This is someone who is choosing to rent in many metros older renters have been driving demand. These renters rent by choice. They prefer an urban or suburban, mixed use style location that provides convenient access to retail dining and cultural amenities. Folks, renting is cool. Okay, it is really getting cool. You know, it’s funny, I think 20 years ago if I told people I was a renter what back when I lived in Orange County, right? And and I wasn’t a renter, I always owned a home except for a very brief time when I had a home in Newport coast, California that was being built, and I rented for a very short time as that house was under construction in between homes, okay. But if I told people I was a renter, I would have been sort of considered like, not that successful or something. And nowadays, I’ve been a renter since 2011. And I absolutely love being a renter, even though I own a lot of other properties, less expensive properties that people rent from me. So it times they are changing. homeownership, as an owner occupant is less meaningful than it’s ever been in here. human history, geography is less meaningful than it’s ever been in human history. Age is less meaningful than it’s ever been in human history. It is an amazing time to be alive. Just realize how quickly things are changing right under our noses. It is it is truly incredible. And on the negative side culture, cultural shifts. Not so good. We will talk about this on a future episode. But yeah, anyway, a couple books I just want to recommend. Well, gosh, do I even have time for this? You know, I really don’t, but I’ll do it really quick, extraordinary. Popular delusions and the madness of crowds. This is kind of a classic book by Charles McKay. Check it out. Mark Stein, s t y n after America. That guy is brilliant. I really recommend that one on the audio format because he’s so Funny, the attention merchants by Tim Wu that was quite fascinating principles by Ray Dalio. You know, Ray Dalio, the super big rich guy. That’s what he was on Tony Robbins book that looks pretty interesting. The soul of the First Amendment. I interviewed the author, Floyd Abrams on my free court show, which by the way, is a show I have about legal topics. And you can find that at free court calm or of course on iTunes or any platform. But that’s all about the First Amendment and free speech and what it’s really all about in depth. fascinating, fascinating book, unscripted by MJ DeMarco life, liberty and the pursuit of entrepreneurship really interesting book. We are about to announce some more big great speakers for upcoming meet the Masters event. Be sure to get your tickets, you have a last chance to grab a guest ticket or a membership to the venture Alliance mastermind in Palm Springs, California. Coming up really quick So again the websites for these Jason hartman.com for your meet the Masters tickets, venture Alliance mastermind calm To find out more about the venture Alliance mastermind group. Anyway, here we go let’s learn how to think like Leonardo da Vinci Welcome to the show. This is Jason Hartman your host and every 10th episode, we do something kind of special kind of different. What we do is we go off topic so regardless of which show it is on the Hartman media network, whether it be one of the financial shows economics, real estate investing, a travel, longevity, all of the other topics that we have, every 10th episode, we go off topic, and we explore something of general interest, something of general life success value, and so many of our listeners around the world in 164 countries have absolutely loved our 10th episode shows. So that’s what we’re going to do today. And let’s go ahead and get to our guests with a special 10th episode show. And of course on the next episode, we’ll be back to our regular programming. Here we go. It’s my pleasure to welcome Michael gelt to the show. He is a very well known author. He has sold lots and lots of books over the years on some great topics and we’ll dive into that in a moment. He’s founder and president of the high performance Learning Center. He’s a number one New York Times bestselling author of How to think like Leonardo da Vinci, seven steps to genius every day and the new book, The Art of connection, seven relationship building skills every leader needs now, Michael, welcome. How are you?

Michael Gelb 22:44
I’m fabulous. Thank you so much. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 22:46
yeah, it’s good to have you. You are quite an author. I must say congratulations on your success. Your Da Vinci book, you’ve got to with Da Vinci titles, I believe how to think like Leonardo sold over 700,000 copies and I think it’s in like 25 languages are something

Michael Gelb 23:01
that is correct. Wow. And it’s still rocking every day. We love it. Thank you. I know.

Jason Hartman 23:08
Yeah, that was one of yours. Yeah, congratulations. And your newest book is a kind of a deep look at connection. You know, we live in a world like that is so in a way, it’s very connected. And here’s the kind of absurdity of today’s life right? I’m sure you’re gonna have a comment on this. We’re all more connected than ever with social media, the internet, etc. But we’re all more disconnected and really isolated. You know, all of these tools are isolating tools and a lot of ways the connections have become, I would argue much more shallow than they used to be. Kind of just give us a commentary on what’s going on here. And then let’s talk about your seven relationship building skills.

Michael Gelb 23:49
Yes, you just went right to the heart of why I wrote the art of connection and it is precisely because Although we’re electronically linked, and we have access to all of the world’s knowledge and information, we’re also overwhelmed by a massive tsunami of spam. I don’t know if you saw the onion headline A while ago that said, lowest common denominator plummets. And kids are growing up learning their conversation skills from Alexa and Siri. So there is a pandemic of superficial reality of isolation. And besides being soul destroying, and weakening of one’s health and wellness and happiness, it’s also undercuts one’s ability to be a leader. And to actually be really successful and fulfilled. My thesis is that these abilities, the ability To connect with people face to face, one on one to be really empathic. He’s going to become more and more valuable every year as we become more addicted to various devices. So I wrote this book, I actually have an unofficial nephew, the son of one of my dear friends and kind of act as his mentor. He’s 22. He’s super savvy, Master of the internet, Master of Social Media, even started at age 21, a search engine optimization company that has already sold super savvy, smart kid, I wrote this book for him, so that he can take that amazing super brain and sophistication electronically and enrich and deepen his soul and have fulfilling happy relationships and be really good as a leader in the businesses that I know he’s going to create the In the years to come,

Jason Hartman 26:00
okay, so take us through some of these steps. I mean, certainly books on connection on you know how to how to reach out to people how to have deeper meaning and relationships. That has been done. But you’ve broken some new ground here. What are some of the specific steps?

Michael Gelb 26:18
Just before we get to those two, I know you’re enthusiastic about how to think like Leonardo da Vinci. Yes. And that’s mostly what I’m known for. I wrote how to think like Leonardo da Vinci as you mentioned, 19 years ago, and I wrote another book called innovate like Edison, which I co authored with Thomas Edison’s great, great, great, grand, nice, and I’m known primarily for my work, helping entrepreneurs, helping companies, be more creative, be more innovative, but if you really want to be creative, if you really want to be innovative, what it comes down to is can you get people to buy into your idea? How do you build a real relationships that will allow you to get your innovation made done produced. So, these seven relationship building skills are the core skills that I’ve found. help my clients be successful in making their creative ideas come true. And the first one is to embrace humility. And this is when I say humility to I don’t mean no false humility, it doesn’t mean not being really confident. There’s a surprising paradox here that true confidence is predicated on humility, because you learn to set aside your own ego, and your own habits, and really tune in to what’s happening with another person or group of people. This is a core secret of really great listening of really understanding other people. Moreover, most communication resulting misunderstanding. Most people don’t get their message across effectively. Most people aren’t as good as listening as they think they are. You know, it’s a lot like driving, everybody thinks they’re way above average, and it can’t be true. So that’s why humility comes first. If you have that humility, you’ll have curiosity. If you have curiosity, then you’ll be on the path to building much richer, more effective relationships.

Jason Hartman 28:29
Yeah, no question about that. So being curious, and I would say active listening would definitely be part of that. Right, not just hearing there’s a big difference between hearing someone and actually listening to them. Right. And, and drawing them out in the conversation and asking for points of clarification and so forth. Right.

Michael Gelb 28:46
Exactly. Exactly. And doing so with an attitude of openness and follow through. So instead of assuming, oh, I understood what you meant. I assume maybe I didn’t get it. So I I’m curious and I want to know and you sense my curiosity. And then you said, Oh, this person is actually really interested in what I’m saying. Rather than just quickly assuming that they, they’ve got it and they’re off on to some other tangent

Jason Hartman 29:19
like, well, what’s a glow worm? When you talk about glow? How do you be a glow worm? That’s number two,

Michael Gelb 29:24
one of my favorite quotes from Winston Churchill, who’s just an example of one of the great leaders in all of human history. And he said, We are all worms. But I do believe that I am a glow worm. So, it turns out that we now know that emotions are contagious. For better or for worse. Someone like Winston Churchill, spread the contagion of hope, of courage, of strength, of resilience and Save the nation and probably save Western civilization. We also know that negativity, meanness, cruelty, unkindness, cynicism are also contagious and that they spread an environment in a workplace that isn’t just unpleasant. It’s actually expensive. There’s a lot of research now, Professor Christine Porat, Professor Jane Dutton, many others showing that when leaders are abusive or obnoxious, it’s like the old Three Stooges you know, moe hits, Larry, Larry hits curly. Curly goes, whoo, ha ha ha. So a lot of bosses unfortunately, are too much like mo and you really serve. When you’re a leader. Your emotions are contagious. Your attitudes are contagious, for better or for worse, and they magnify more than you’re aware. So Learning to be really impeccable about the emotions that you’re spreading is one of the secrets of creating a marvelous workplace and the implications for your family or it should be obvious as well.

Jason Hartman 31:10
Do you have anything to say about? Like, I read the book years ago, and I’ve got the author coming up on the show, he’s written several books, but one of them is called the No, Paul rule. Okay. And, you know, he, he talks a lot about, you know, the late Steve Jobs in there. Right. And, and Steve Jobs would be the antithesis of what you’re saying, obviously, right. He to speak ill of the dead. I mean, Steve Jobs is obviously brilliant. But, you know, he was known for being a really difficult guy. I mean, you know, really just intractable and ego maniacal and so forth. Can you put that in some context was, you know, see the question nobody ever asked in life, my Sure. And this is, this is a huge problem with human thinking. And I talk about it all the time, is that you can’t hear the dogs that don’t bark. So, you know, we look at Steve Jobs and we think, oh, what a successful guy right. But you know, the question, we never ask is how much more successful would he have been if he was just as brilliant, but a little more pleasant?

Michael Gelb 32:07
So no, it’s really wonderful that you bring that up and frame it in that way. I know you’re talking about Bob Sutton, I actually interviewed him for this chapter. And I asked them the very tough question that many people are asking. And they asked about somebody like Steve Jobs. Sometimes it seems like polls are really successful. How do you explain that right? Even though the research suggests that they’d be more successful if they weren’t that way, and that they do untold harm on so many levels to so many people. Sutton actually, here’s a quote from Sutton in my book, he says even though there are occasions when being a doll helps people in companies when my view is if you’re a winner and a tall, you’re still tall, and I don’t want to be around you and I agree with I agree with that. Big time. So the emphasis on success at the expense of the environment around you both literally and figuratively, is, I think, a toxic and ignorant attitude. We now know a lot of studies my my good buddy, Raj sisodia, wrote the book firms of endearment. We now know you’ll do better financially, you’ll be more successful in business. If you treat all stakeholders with respect with care with dignity, that orientation that attitude is also probably more important now than ever before.

Jason Hartman 33:36
Yeah, no question. Okay, good stuff. Let’s move on, though. Let’s cover I want to make sure we can sort of hit on at least a quick summary of all of your points here. Did we cover the glowworm? We got the

Michael Gelb 33:47
essence of it. Yeah, there’s a lot more to it. Right. Go for it. The next one is achieve the three Liberation’s and these are ways of liberating yourself. So that you really are free from the habitual tendencies. The mindlessness, people talk about mindfulness. But we need to talk a lot about mindlessness. Because there’s a lot of it going around today. And one way that manifests is people’s tendency to look at everything from the perspective of what they like, or they don’t like. This is so limiting. It’s driven by an unconscious desire to move towards things that we think will promote our survival and move away from things that we think might compromise our survival. And so obviously, I’m all in favor of survival. But if you’re trying to lead an organization, if you’re trying to accomplish something great if you’re trying to inspire and uplift people, then if you communicate with them based solely on a constant evaluation of whether you like Things are don’t like things. You’re tending not to see what’s really happening, you’re out of touch with reality. So it’s okay to like things. I mean, I like plenty of things and I dislike lots of things. But the key is to liberate yourself from that being your default setting and the filter through which you look at everything. Similarly, the second liberation is to liberate yourself from taking everything personally. It’s just not allowed a lot

Jason Hartman 35:29
of people that just want to find a reason to be offended.

Michael Gelb 35:34
It just get over it. Yeah, I mean, but it’s just also it’s just, it really isn’t about you. I mean, this is it’s narcissism, the concept.

Jason Hartman 35:44
The concept of being offended by everything is, it’s narcissistic, but it’s also selfish. It’s like this self centered, very childlike, you know, when, if you do research and look at, you know, all the psychology of kids and so forth. Kids are extremely selfish, right? And as we grow older, we become hopefully less selfish, right? They think that it’s all about them. And that’s obviously survival mechanism, right? They’ve got to be that way or they probably perish to be in an adult body and still have these like childlike, sort of, I’m the center of the world. belief systems are just, we got to grow that right

Michael Gelb 36:24
big time, big time. And it’s easy to spot this and other people but my book really drives you to look at this in yourself.

Jason Hartman 36:31
I mean, it’s hardest to look in the mirror.

Michael Gelb 36:34
And, and I share some examples of where, you know, I catch myself doing this and how much work it really takes to free yourself when you react to something on a personal level. So I’m serious about these as Liberation’s and the third one is to liberate yourself from the tendency to blame and complain Which wastes a huge amount of energy and is just the depth of responsibility and energy and a lightness and genuine power.

Jason Hartman 37:11
Those three Liberation’s relate especially those last two. So what are the three again just name them really quickly.

Michael Gelb 37:17
Sure freedom from like and dislike hmm freedom from taking things personally and freedom from whining, blaming and complaining, yeah,

Jason Hartman 37:26
Good stuff, good stuff, okay. And after the three Liberation’s, then what

Michael Gelb 37:31
next is transcend fixations transcend fixations, and what that means is, we all have certain pre dispositions, they can be measured and understood by various personality inventories. My clients are often exposed to these in the workplace, the Myers Briggs, the enneagram, which is one of my favorites, the Wilson learning model, what’s your type, learn about it, and then learn to be free from it, learn to transcend. Whatever your habitual programming is, it’s the next step after the fundamental three Liberation’s, it’s okay now, really simply, if you’re an introvert, if you tend to be quieter, and keep your own counsel and not learn how to speak up, well guess what you’re going to have to learn how to do. And if you are more assertive, and the first to speak up, you need to do the opposite. You need to transcend your habitual fixation and

Jason Hartman 38:37
just to sit back and listen, man, if you’re that person if you’re the extrovert, right? Yeah.

Michael Gelb 38:41
Yeah, big time. So to learn to do the opposite.

Jason Hartman 38:44
We make a comment on this. And I think you’ll be interested in this, Michael, I have noticed this for many years now. And this is a kind of a pretty dangerous concept about today’s world. I think that all of us are just becoming more like ourselves. So let’s take the one example would be the political arena. Right? And you know, many, many will argue, although it’s not really a new thing, look at the country’s been divided many times throughout history Okay, this is not like a new thing, you know, people throughout the world and every country, there’s been divisiveness, right. But people would also argue that, you know, today it’s really bad. And I don’t know if it’s worse than it was at other times. But that’s not the point. The point is that ever since the internet advertisers, and I would argue that this started with a company called Double click in the late 90s, right, since they started tailoring ads and content to us, and we all have this big data profile in our life. And we’ve all noticed it, we’ll go and shop for something online. And then the ads follow us around, do you still want a new pair of shoes, you know, blah, blah, blah. And what is happening here is that now that We can all tailor our news and the products we like and the stores we like. And, you know, our consumer profiles, you know, we either tailor them or they’re tailored for us by other people by big data, right? We just keep becoming more like ourselves. And I would argue that it is really necessary for us to escape ourselves, I would argue that a little bit of escapism is actually a positive thing, because it helps us see another side of things, you know, if you’re rich and you live in a suburb, you know, change your driving pattern and drive through a slump. Okay, or the opposite. You know, if you want to be Richard, I mean, it’s definitely a good visualization exercise to go and hang around rich people if you want to become rich and you’re not. That is that sort of a different concept. But we got to get out of our own head once in a while. Not always, you know, we need to know who we are obviously, right. But we are definitely bombarded with becoming more live. ourselves today in today’s world, would you agree with that?

Michael Gelb 41:03
I do agree with that. And I think it’s extremely dangerous. This is brain hacking. And we have people railed against the tobacco companies for getting people addicted to nicotine and that just took over your lungs and gave you emphysema or they they rail against big sugar for making you think that it’s okay to have sugary drinks and Okay, you got obese and you’ve got diabetes. But now forget it. It’s not just your pancreas and it’s not just your lungs. They’re going after your brain, your whole nervous system. By seducing you, it comes back to the click of what you like and following what you like. And if you’re completely like, driven, you want things that are just like your habitual self. And the tragic thing is that your habitual automatic, pre programmed self has almost nothing to do with your True Self. great leaders are people who reach the true self of others and of themselves. People who have enlivening, rich, beautiful, fulfilling, satisfying, exciting, creative relationships are a joy just responding in a robotic, hypnotized, automatic brain hacked away to their world. So absolutely, this is about freedom. It’s another way of thinking about that’s what how to think like Leonardo da Vinci is really all about. And that’s what this book is really all about. I just apply it more specifically to how it manifests in your relationship with yourself and other people.

Jason Hartman 42:44
Yeah, good points. You know, we’re all like people just they keep reading the same things. They keep having the same conversations. You know, they might argue that they’re into diversity, because they have a couple of friends of different colors, and genders, but they all think the same There’s no diversity of air. I mean, you know, like, it’s diversity of thought is the most important type of diversity. You know? So yeah, good stuff. Okay, what’s next?

Michael Gelb 43:10
Then we have balanced energy exchange. This is essentially what every relationship is all about. It’s what’s the flow of energy between the parties in the relationship? And is it abundant and fulfilling for all that’s a positive, you know, this, you walk into a business, you go into a company, and you can tell right away about the quality of leadership, by the energy and the place when there’s positive energy when people greet you when they’re engaging when we care, just Yeah, right. It’s totally contagious. And the opposite is also true. We all know that feeling of walking into a store and nobody’s there to greet you and you’re not gonna get any help or rest. I’m very good. If I spot a restaurant that’s like that. I just, I cancel it right? away I go somewhere else. It’s not what I’m interested in yes I want that feeling good

Jason Hartman 44:04
that environment is contagious the emote like you said earlier, the emotions are very contagious. There’s no question about that. Yeah, the bounce energy exchange. That’s good. So in other words, don’t be all the hyper glad hander person when the other person’s not that way. Like is it? Is it really NLP? Is it kind of the matching and mirroring concept? Is that what you’re saying?

Michael Gelb 44:25
Well, it’s funny because I taught mind mapping to one of the founders of NLP many, many years ago. We did some exchanges. I learned a bunch of NLP and NLP at the very useful tool. But this is more NVC nonviolent communication, the work of Marshall Rosenberg nonviolent communication.

Michael Gelb 44:48
I go into it in quite a lot of depth in the book, a guy was a genius. And he figured out how we can take the violence out of our language. A lot. I mean, not violence. hitting you in the face directly. But when I tell you what you should do, or I speak to you in evaluative terms, or I talk to you in a way that is dismissive or demeaning or objectifying, he was making a point by being strong in his language by saying it’s a kind of violence just like Sutton says, Don’t be all these books register because they use strong language to get our attention. But the real underlying message is look at how the balance of relationship energy is in your life, and happiest relationships at work and at home are ones in which we are focused on giving first, but we can only sustain that if we are interacting with people who are also focused on giving first. So how do you redress the balance once Someone is taking, taking taking and you’re giving, giving, giving. Well, that’s how you have to learn how to give feedback in a really constructive way. How to say no in a really positive way, how to set expectations in a very careful way. So that’s all. That’s all in the balance energy exchange chapter of the book.

Jason Hartman 46:18
Okay, we are running out of time here, we got two more points you need to make real quickly. And let’s give out your website, tell people where they can find out more about you and all your great books. But be a rare listener. Maybe we kind of touched on that earlier with the active listening and then turn friction into momentum.

Michael Gelb 46:35
Yes, that’s so friction into momentum is all about a creative approach to conflict. And the big message here is learn to separate the idea of a contest where there’s a winner and a loser from a conflict where we need to use creativity to figure out how to meet people’s needs.

Jason Hartman 46:56
I love the way Denis waitley put that years ago. I remember he He used to say, there is no such thing as winning an argument there is only winning in agreement.

Michael Gelb 47:06
So well said. Yeah, that’s very, very good.

Jason Hartman 47:09
Good stuff. Well, Michael, very enlightening. give out your website tell people where they can find out more

Michael Gelb 47:15
sure. It’s Michael gallup.com. That’s g e lb. Michael geld.com.

Jason Hartman 47:21
Michael gab, calm and just to wrap that up, embrace humility, be a glowworm achieve the three Liberation’s transcend fixations, balance, energy exchange, be a rare listener and rare is an acronym. I know you don’t have time to go into that, but they can find it in the book and turn friction into momentum. Michael, thank you for joining us today. My pleasure. Thank you.

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