Jason Hartman starts the show with in-house economist Thomas as they discuss the tax reform sweeping the nation and its impact on homeownership. Later on the show, Jason brings on Blake Harris, NY Times best-selling author of the new book The History of the Future: Oculus, Facebook & the Revolution That Swept Virtual Reality. They discuss how technology is impacting our lives and about the impact technology is having on our lives. They also go into how virtual reality can be integrated into our society.
Jason Hartman 0:00
Working with the local market specialist went really well. I feel like I was able to get the type of property that I wanted and happy with with the price and the rehab job and the tenants have gone well.
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it. And now here’s your Your host Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 1:06
Welcome listeners from around the world. This is Episode 1164 1164. Thank you so much for joining us today. I’ve got our in house economist Thomas here with us and we are going to talk about how the government has disincentivized homeownership, yes. disincentivizing homeownership, it used to incentivize it much more than it is nowadays. And this bodes well for you investors. So congratulations. Because when you disincentivize something you create, its opposite, you create more renters. So, that’s what we’ll talk about in the intro portion before we get to our guest today, Thomas, welcome back. How you doing?
Yeah, good to be with you.
Jason Hartman 1:49
Good to have you on So hey, Thomas, I haven’t talked to you since you were at meet the masters and I didn’t see much of you there but I saw you standing in the back of the room watching This is now what your second event with us, right? You went to profits in paradise in Hawaii? What did you think? How was the event for you?
Oh, I think the best part was watching you dance to Rod Stewart.
Jason Hartman 2:14
Yeah, that was pretty good. You know, I do like to cut a rug a little bit, I will I will be the first to admit that. And a few people said to me that that was the most fun they had in years. One guy said to me was the most fun he had in a decade. And I will tell you, it was the most fun I had since last years meet the Masters just about 14 months ago, when we had the journey tribute band. And I got I gotta tell you, you know, tribute bands. Some of them are great, because they’re actually better than the real artists sometimes. Here’s my theory on that. A tribute band. Their whole goal is to sound like the album to sound like the song we always know love and recognize all those songs of whatever the artist is the original band, they want to improvise. And they want to make it different and they want you to hear their new stuff that you don’t even know. You know, like, I remember years ago, I went to a Dave Matthews concert and honestly, it was just not good. I don’t think too many people were getting into it, you know, and at the time, I liked the band. I thought they had some good songs and, you know, they were doing all this stuff that it just wasn’t recognizable to the audience. You know, they wanted to do all their creativity and that’s like, to me, that’s like experimenting on your audience. You gotta give your audience your good stuff. So I don’t know. That’s just my opinion. I could be wrong, but But yeah, I do like to cut a rug and that was a lot of fun. I gotta say that was a lot of fun.
I gotta tell you, the meet the maskers event and the prophets in paradise. They’re packed full of information. I didn’t know you cover a lot of areas from technology. The I Am flash founder talking about his views, you know, to the tax value of homeownership to self directed IRAs to talking to experts on markets around the country. You know, it’s it’s amazing all the stuff that gets packed into the, into the event.
Jason Hartman 4:17
Yeah, it really is cool to bring all those people together. I will say though, the thing that I think is very important is that you go to all of our events listeners, because at meet the Masters, I really talk very little. And that is one of the complaints we’ve had a couple of times over the years. Jason talk more and hey, I’m flattered. Okay, but meet the Masters isn’t that event that’s where we get lots of speakers and lots of people together. The other events like creating wealth, and j h you Jason Hartman University. Those are where it’s it’s really just Presenting and I’ll have a couple other speakers that will just present for a very short time, you really need to get the whole spectrum of these events. And make sure that you know, over the course of the year, you can always do this. And those two events Jay Chou and creating wealth they don’t change very much. They change a bit, but not as much but meet the masters and prophets in paradise completely different events every single time. Of course, venture Alliance retreats and adventure lions trips are completely different every time too. So just to let people know about about the different things, but you are networking a lot with the local market specialist at the event and I know you and you have a little investment club. You’re interested in some of our Ohio properties it looks like right,
yeah, we want to invest in some more income producing properties outside of the state of Utah. So yeah, we want to go to Ohio and Pennsylvania.
Jason Hartman 5:52
Pennsylvania was a new market that we presented there at meet the Masters so we’re excited about that one. We have looked to get into that for quite a few years, but we were just not satisfied with any of the teams we were finding. And we think we’ve we’ve got a really good team now. So, so that’s good. Well hate today, Thomas, you want to talk about the subject of disincentivizing homeownership, and I think this is really cool. Now, the typical real estate thinker will think, Oh, this is bad news, right? You know, this is terrible. The government is taking away incentives for people to buy real estate. Well, that’s fine with me this only applies to homeowners, not to investors, and the fewer homeowners who have these artificial incentives to buy a house in which to live, which I’ve told you for years is just not that good a deal, the more it will create additional rental demand. And the more renters there will be in the marketplace, creating upward pressure on rents, which is Hey, it’s great for everybody listening. Tell us a little bit about this if you would and give us the comparison between Prior to federal tax reform last year, and then, you know now what it’s like under the new reform?
Yeah, so I’ll start in the 70s. Basically, the tax value of owning a median priced home was around 2000 bucks in the 70s. And then it bumped up to around six $7,000 in the 80s. And it stayed around there. It depends on what mortgage rates did over the period. But in general, on average, the tax value of owning a home was around 6000 bucks. And the way I get to that is I’m taking the difference between mortgage interest paid and what the standard deduction was. So essentially, say a family earning 70,000 and paying 14,000 in mortgage interest. Their incentive was to itemize their deductions and take their mortgage interest off of their taxes. And with with federal tax reform, it basically doubled the standard deduction for a typical filer from around 13,000 to 24,000. So that family that was making 70,000 and paying 14,000 in interest. Now, there’s no incentive for them to pay interest, because they’ll just take the standard deduction of 24,000. So essentially, they know whether it makes a difference on the margin for moderate income families. It’s still Yeah, you seen it doesn’t make
Jason Hartman 8:38
a difference for everybody. But this is not the rich, we’re talking about here. Okay, with the new tax reform, and I say new, you know, it’s a little over a year old now, right, but it’s new enough and in the tax world, we saw the limit to the salt what’s known as salt to the acronym state and local taxes. We saw the limit Those deductions. And with that, that really was a slam on, you know, wealthier people not super wealthy necessarily they don’t care too much. But on wealthier people, it disincentivized living in expensive areas California, New York, etc. That hurt them. Now this what you’re talking about, though is how it affects just someone making 70 grand, right? That’s not a ton of money in today’s world. That effect is pretty significant, isn’t it?
Yeah. If before the federal tax reform, you had, say, a $6,000 incentive to pay mortgage interest to now minus $9,000 incentive for paying mortgage interest, then, you know, there’s a $15,000 flip. Yeah.
Jason Hartman 9:46
So this is it depends on whether you’re doing the long form or the short form on your taxes, right?
Yeah. So this is individuals that itemize their taxes. So when you when you find out You’re tax form, you can either take the standard deduction, which was going to be 13,000 for family filing, married filing joint to it jumped up to 24,000. So that that $9,000 difference. There are families in there that, you know, were paying mortgage interest and they were paying more than 13,000 mortgage interest to where it was advantageous for them to itemize their mortgage interest and take basically take their mortgage interest off their taxes. Now, that incentive so
Jason Hartman 10:35
just to run through the details of that, if they’re paying mortgage interest of $14,000 per year, they give $7,000 away to charity. They pay property taxes of $2,000 for a total of $23,000. Their standard deduction is $13,000. And the tax value of mortgage interest charity property taxes is $10,000 in That was before tax reform with the same exact scenario. Now, they’re deduction, same exact numbers above right. Now their deduction is negative $1,000. In other words, they used to deduct $10,000. And now they basically are losing 11,000 in deductions. Right.
Yeah. So basically, they just take the standard deduction. I’m not saying that federal tax reform, increase the tax burden on you know, a family making 70,000 for most tax filers, it’s around 80% will see a, you know, a tax savings of around 15 20%. So, you know, it was a, it depends on a little perspective, right, but it was the biggest town
Jason Hartman 11:47
and overall different good but it definitely slammed the people in the high cost of living areas. So when I had Meredith Whitney on a few years back and she talked about the state of the states, this is yet another incentive to migrate to places with lower property taxes and lower housing costs. And, boy, a lot of people have been doing that yours truly included. So it feels very good to live in a no income tax state, like I do now, instead of living in, in the Socialist Republic of California, where it’s so expensive. It’s just so expensive. And you know, over the course of years, since I moved to Arizona in 2011, and then, you know, I tried Nevada didn’t like it. So now I’m in Florida. It’s amazing how much more quickly you can grow your wealth, when you don’t have the burden of the taxes, but also just the higher cost of living in general. I mean, hey, where I live in Florida is not cheap, but it’s still cheaper than Newport Beach. Okay, where are the masters? just wasn’t where I used to live. So yeah, that’s good, good stuff. Okay. Hey, Thomas, we got to get to our guest. But thank you for bringing this up. I just want to remind our listeners next couple events. We’ve got Venture Alliance mastermind retreat focused on property tax deed and property tax lien investing in Savannah, Georgia, coming up in May. And then our Cuba and Grand Cayman cruise a week long cruise coming up in november november 6 for that, check those out at Jason Hartman calm and let’s go to our guests it’s my pleasure to welcome a returning guest back to the show and that is Blake J. Harris. He’s a New York Times bestselling author of console wars Sega Nintendo and the battle that defined a generation now we’re not talking about that today. We’re talking about his new book, the history of the future, about Oculus, Facebook and the revolution that swept virtual reality. Interesting that he says swept in past tense. We’ll see what he says about that. He’s got a new TV series out published by Legendary Pictures with Seth Rogen, Evan Goldberg and Scott Rudin, and executive producer Sony’s feature film adaptation of console wars. I think this should be an interesting talk that you know, the future ain’t what it used to be, as they say, like, welcome. How are you? I’m good. I’m busy thinking about the future and you’re spot on. It ain’t what it used to be. It’s changing every day. Yeah, that’s for sure. As Yogi Berra famously said, it’s interesting, as I noted in your intro, that you put in past tense, the revolution that swept virtual reality. I don’t even think we’ve started the revolution yet
Blake Harris 14:29
have we? interesting observation no one’s asked me about that was by design a bit, obviously, a virtual reality and augmented reality headsets are not ubiquitous at all right now. So it would be premature to say that we’ve succeeded in this revolution. But I do think that there was such an energy and fervor around Oculus, their Kickstarter in 2012. And the excitement around gaming and virtual reality that it did feel like a revolution that has already happened and of course, set a lot of things into motion, that hopefully will be leading to bearing fruit over the next few years. But to me, it did feel like there was a special time for virtual reality between 2012 and 2016. That has come to an end, you know, not the end of virtual reality. But but that phase of the revolution did feel like it was a self contained story.
Jason Hartman 15:16
So Blake, one of the possibly most amazing things is how virtual reality Oculus Rift, Facebook, it will change the way we socialize. It will change the way we date. It will change the way we meet people, the way we have business meetings. Wow. It’s hugely significant, isn’t it?
Blake Harris 15:38
Absolutely. I mean, I mentioned that the reason I felt that virtual reality revolution from 2012 to 2016 was sort of this self contained thing was because it really was very gaming oriented. Oculus was founded in 2012. And their tagline their mission was actually to help people step into the game. And then in 2014, Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook acquired Oculus for 3 billion dollars. And it was for all of the reasons that you’re describing the future of education, the future of training, future productivity, the future of dating. And it really does have the potential to do all of those things in ways that some that ways that we can imagine some ways that we cannot. But But really, it comes down to this idea that was such a significant part of what the guys at Oculus were building towards, which was presence to feel like you’re actually somewhere else, when really where, you know, physically, you’re the same place. Wearing a headset and the potential of that, I think one of the simplest ways to put it for people who haven’t tried a headset is to just think maybe a virtual reality as like the next iteration, from phone calls to Skype to virtual reality interactions where this conversation could be happening virtually in a few years, and will actually feel like we’re together in this other space.
Jason Hartman 16:47
Yeah, it’s really weird to think of it and you know, we left out one huge industry that used to be the biggest industry, online before social media and that’s why I say but the adult industry right and yes, and They always from what I understand are kind of the leaders in pushing these technologies because the more I guess, rich media, right, you know, it’s right. And virtual reality is certainly another step toward the richness, if you will of the media, right? It’s pretty fascinating. You know, it’ll also impact and I didn’t say it, we have so many real estate investors listening, but the way we look at properties, Peter Diamandis, and I think he’s wrong about this. But you know, it’s interesting. I mean, it’ll have an impact. There’s no question I just don’t think it’ll be a all or nothing impact, like the way he was sort of catching it. He was talking about how realtors won’t have a job anymore, you know, because you don’t need to go show a house can just show it through virtual reality. You know, you have the camera, people go through the house once with whatever virtual gear they need. And then you could just do it yourself from any computer or mobile device, right?
Blake Harris 17:52
I mean, conceptually, yes. And I do think that as we already know, virtual reality is being used by architecture firms, for the building houses or building properties and showing properties also buy some real estate agents. But I don’t necessarily see it as such a doom and gloom scenario because I feel like you could say the same about houses today, you know, the house exists, someone could go to it, but we are humans. And it is nice to have a guide, it is nice to have an expert by our side, someone who can help us see the vision further and answer questions. So I do imagine that will probably be a bigger part of real estate, and it’ll change the way that we interface with real estate agents and brokers and with these properties, sure, sure.
Jason Hartman 18:29
So what do we have now? You know, I’m usually a pretty early adopter with technology I I probably spend too much money that I shouldn’t I don’t have a virtual reality headset, I haven’t even really looked at them much. What does the consumer have available to them now, not only in the hardware, and you know, what’s the price of it and what’s the right thing to buy or not buy? But you know, in terms of what they can actually use it for what you know what videos are available or what What can you do with it?
Blake Harris 19:01
It’s a great question. And it’s particularly interesting because I spent four years working on this book. So I really started working on it in 2015 2016. This was shortly after Facebook’s big acquisition of oculus. And around that time, during the course of my research, I obtained thousands of internal documents and emails. And Mark Zuckerberg had mentioned that he envisioned that five years from now, there would be, you know, 50 to 100 million of these headsets out there being used and it is almost literally five years from that acquisition. And we have nowhere didn’t quite happen. But
Jason Hartman 19:32
a lot of these prognosticators, they’re not wrong, they’re just early.
Blake Harris 19:38
That’s a good way to put it. But in terms of what we do have, we do have 7 million virtual reality headsets out there and to use those though, I think 4 million of them are being used connected to a PC and 3 million are being used connected to PlayStation four. So long way of saying that all 7 million of those are tethered to a computer or a game console. And so you know, I think the future of Virtual reality, the one that is going to make, you know you buy a headset or more interested in buying one or my mom or my brother is an untethered standalone experience, which hopefully could be fordable for a few hundred dollars. And Oculus and Facebook are putting out a headset like that called the Oculus quest in a couple of months, it’s going to be the first affordable headset that does that. And as with so many things over the course of my four years working on this, this is the thing that they think is going to finally make VR take off, it remains to be seen, I think it’s going to be a slow burn either way, but at least it moves us in that right direction where it would be affordable and accessible to you.
Jason Hartman 20:34
Yeah, you you talk about affordability. And I mean, I remember literally the last time I looked up Oculus Rift headset, and it was about $650. Yes. And now I’m looking at it right now this moment, it’s $349. It’s probably better than that other version two, I’m guessing. But what’s the kind of price point that you consider affordable? What are they saying what the quest will cause
Blake Harris 20:56
the quest is going to cost $400, which is still expensive. First, that’s still expensive. But I think that we all sort of understand that this is generation one. And Facebook wants this to be in our hands, you know, they are a software company more than a hardware company. So their goal is to get it out there and to drive the price down. But I think that one of the things that’s interesting is that, to me, this story is about virtual reality. But what interested me as a writer was always sort of this American dream, starting a business story that is universal in that respect. You know, when Oculus first came onto the scene in 2012, with a headset invented by founder, Palmer Luckey, the major proposition was that this was a $300 headset, and then you flash forward a few years when they actually launched it, and it was $600. I’m sure that anyone who’s run a business knows that stuff like that happens that you keep making compromises or keep upgrading. But I do think that at some point us maybe sort of lose sight of your original mission. And that is part of what happened with Oculus and maybe why it is not as ubiquitous as we would want today, but I think that over the next few years, it will come down to a price point of about $200, which is, you know, it’s that’s still a lot of money we can afford. Yeah, right. Yeah.
Jason Hartman 22:07
What else is out there? I mean is the Facebook Oculus cartel, and I’m calling it a cartel? Because I’m not a Facebook fan. I mean, I use it all the time. But I have my gripes about the way it’s been run, for sure. And all of these big tech platforms scare the heck out of me, in many ways. But anyway, that’s good. They should Yeah,
Blake Harris 22:26
I went into this book with no particular gripe against them or strong opinion. But I definitely left very concerned about Facebook and the future of these big tech companies. So I’m glad to hear that you’re suspicious. So I’m extremely suspicious. I think they are way too big and powerful. And they’re abusing us in so many ways. But that’s a whole nother discussion for another day. Who else is there who’s standing in line like Oculus is clearly going to be the leader at least you know, initially, who’s the second place? So second place right now is HTC. They have a partnership with the game company. valve, just best known for Steam and, you know, steams hundreds of millions of PC Gamer user distribution network. They have actually been very competitive with Oculus and have, for the most part been a market leader due to a lot of missteps and mistakes by Oculus and Facebook over the years. But to your point, you know, Facebook has 2 billion users, they have a big war chest of money. And they do seem poised to lead, you know, the next phase of the VR revolution if it were to come to pass. And then you have companies like Apple and like Microsoft, and Google as well, that have really put more of their efforts towards augmented reality, which is you know more about the real world experience with virtual and computer generated objects overlaid on top of reality, right? And it’s kind of a good position for them to be in. You know, we think of Apple as the pioneers of the smartphone industry, and they certainly were to a degree, but it helped him the BlackBerry came first and took a lot of the friction points away for them so that they can come in and I think that we’re probably poised for something like that here with virtual reality. Yeah, very good point, kind of jump to the next section. But I do want to go back for a moment and ask you about what kind of consumer really do with it nowadays? What can they use it for? The primary function is, is gaming. And it’s interesting earlier that you mentioned the adult content industry and pornography, because during my years of working on this book, there was always this talk of finding the killer app, you know, what is going to make you or me or anyone out there buy a $400 or $200 VR headset. And people have always talked about it in terms of some game or even some sort of social media platform. But to your point, historically, with computing platforms, pornography has been one of those big killer apps. And so it’s interesting, especially as we touch on that third rail topic of big tech and the impact they have on our society that Facebook is so averse to adult content appearing or being used on these VR headsets, they make it as difficult as possible, which I think is hurting. This
Jason Hartman 24:58
is probably hurting innovation. And sales. But I’ll say that I’m happy to hear Facebook’s doing at least one sort of ethical thing where you come down. Right? And it’s like, I don’t think,
Blake Harris 25:11
censorship there, but it sort of just goes to speak to Facebook really wants to curate this platform. I think that with PCs, for all the good and the bad that computers have brought us over the past 40 years, it is known to be very open, where you can pretty much do anything and have any sort of content out there. And again, that’s there’s good and bad to that. But, you know, I think adult content in VR is already an area where we’re seeing Facebook exercise their vision to cultivate this ecosystem.
Jason Hartman 25:36
You know, it seems like the sort of second place big thing that really would be right after gaming would be social media. And not just social media, but another form of social media, which would be the dating sites, because Wow, if people could meet and make like virtual reality phone calls, if you will just be an Incredible, it’s bad enough that nobody goes out anymore and everybody’s sitting in front of their screen home and cocooning. You know, this is interesting because this is what the future is faith popcorn predicted way back in the 90s. She called it cocooning where people would just stay at home. And her impetus for that was literally this big technology. You’re ready. Don’t freak out when I tell you about the technology that she built that cocooning theory around home theater systems, and big now, you know, those are totally commonplace, but they were really coming up then. She said, you know, you won’t need to go to the movies anymore.
Blake Harris 26:34
Jason Hartman 26:36
But it became a lot more than that. But it seems like really the social media and you know, the dating platforms would be huge. Also, I could see a huge use for job interviews. Yeah, that’s really, really efficient. A whole bunch of things, you know, looking at houses looking at cars, any I mean, there’s a million applications, obviously, but
Blake Harris 26:55
thoughts Yeah, I mean, a good example of of how it can be used in a social context is On Monday of this week, I did a book interview, like a basically a campfire fireside chat in a virtual space hosted by a VR evangelist and you know, 50 people, quote, unquote, attended virtually. And so after the QA I could meet with some of them and talk to them. And so you know, it has that semblance of being more like a physical event as opposed to just ironing someone or text messaging someone. I think that part of the reason people haven’t jumped full force into the dating and that sort of thing is because you do have this issue with the uncanny valley, you know, there is not right now at perfect VR representation avatar of myself or of yourself. It’s, you know, it’s still gonna be a little gawky. So I think until they perfect that it’s probably going to, you know, make people continue to date in real world or via applications. But the one of the things that you have that you really pointed on was the social media aspect. And if you recall, you know, a big part of what made social media take off in the early or mid aughts was the sharing of photos and videos. And so, with virtual reality, you have this ability to share 360 degree videos, meaning that you put a camera in the center of a room, and like let’s say it’s a child’s birthday party and grandma can’t be there, you can literally just record a panel full panorama, and grandma can either be there in the moment, or she can relive the birthday party. You know, for anyone who’s tried one of those 360 experiences, it’s kind of incredible because it’s like walking through someone else’s memory. Like you can walk and visit other parts of this experience that you didn’t even go to in the first place. It’s pretty amazing. You know, there’s going to be, there will be a new thing. Well, we already have it to an extent, and I don’t even know the name, but there’s a buzz word for it. I can’t remember. But there will be virtual reality tourism, that will happen, you know, right. What about the other senses? I mean, virtual reality plays on you know, the vast majority is your vision. It plays on your equilibrium, though, which I call the sixth sense. You know, they talked about a sixth sense. We already have one we already know about it. It’s your equilibrium. Right? Good point, but
Jason Hartman 28:54
you know, you can There are also a lot of sensors as far as body movement and touch and you know what The other senses.
Blake Harris 29:01
So we’re still very early on that. I mean, I think smell is one that is discussed a lot. There’s articles about it, because it’s perhaps the most fascinating. How do you create a seemingly infinite palette? It’s the most difficult smell is
Blake Harris 29:14
to recreate. Yeah.
Blake Harris 29:14
So you know, I’ve seen experiments of trying to take the most common smells and recreate them. And that’s going to be way into the future. But perhaps a workaround for that is where it gets into scary or maybe empowering territory where you actually tap into the neural circuits. So maybe you’re not actually smelling pizza years, but you’re triggering something in the brain that spires the same receptors that you would normally have when you smell pizza, and you feel like you’re smelling pizza. That’s sort of more like a matrix type discussion. But that is probably going to take the longest like you said, smells is the hardest sense to recreate. You know, touch is probably going to be where we’re focused. For now. Getting our hands into virtual reality was a big win and big, important thing
Jason Hartman 29:54
early on, tell it tell us how that works. Give us a hint as to how the touch and the motion stuff works a little bit.
Blake Harris 30:01
Sure. So you know, whenever I would talk to game developers or content developers, they would always say the first thing you do is in VR, you look down for your hands. And early on, there was no hands, it was a game controller. So bringing your hands into the experience without, you know, Oculus Touch controllers are the ones from the HTC Vive, at least gives you the feeling that your hands are there, the quest is going to be doing finger tracking. So you know, you should be able to move all your digits and have full dexterity, but then there’s also the actual sense of touch. And so that’s going to probably be a matter of haptic feedback. There’s some different options. We see some of that with video games today. But that’s really the areas that these companies are exploring is trying to bring more haptics into VR.
Jason Hartman 30:39
Yeah, it’s really interesting. Well, Blake, we got to wrap it up. But is there anything you want to share on like the financial impact to the economy, or these companies or I don’t know, you just thought I’d throw it out there.
Blake Harris 30:53
One thing that I think about a lot as I walk outside, and I’m sorry if it’s a little bit noisy for the listeners is You know, I look at all these stores or places where they used to be stores. And I do wonder what is going to be there in the future when so much of this can be done virtually. I mean, we’ve already seen this tectonic shift. Oh, yeah. Retail due to Amazon and the internet. Now, apocalypse. Yeah, exactly. And so what happens when you take that a step further, what happens when you and I decided to go out on a date or a double date? And we can do that virtually, instead of going to a Starbucks? What is going to need to exist in the meat and potatoes real world? Hopefully, people smarter than me are thinking of good options and ways that we can still interact physically. But it does make me wonder about that. And I guess from a financial standpoint, that’s probably a win. You know, we go to Amazon now and I took out a jacket and it’s delivered to me, but what if I could just go in there now and go into an Amazon virtual dressing room? Yeah, right on. Yeah. And maybe it’s a virtual jacket, or maybe it’s a real jacket, and that’s really where the future of retail
Jason Hartman 31:50
is going to be headed. Or maybe you’ll just order it on a 3d printer from your home, you know? It’s a it’s an amazing time to be alive. And you know, we This really speaks to the quote that I often repeat, it’s my own quote just says, geography is less meaningful than it’s ever been in human history, geography is less meaningful than it’s ever been in human history. It’s still meaningful, but less than ever. And I think that even more so you give out your website, of course, you can find the book and all the usual places, and I’m on Blake
Blake Harris 32:23
J. Harris calm you can see interviews about the making of the book and some excerpts on there. Thanks so much for having me on. Jason. This is great. Hey, Blake, it was a pleasure. Take care. Yeah.
Jason Hartman 32:34
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