On this Flash Back Friday originally published in December 2013 as episode 354, Jason starts the show with his mom. She talks about having grit when it comes to both life and income property investing. They talk about what it means to be successful. After, Jason welcomes credit repair expert, Steve Paige. Steve is an expert in credit repair and scoring. He gives strategies on how to have a better credit score.
Jason Hartman 0:00
I’d like to introduce someone whose voice you’ve heard on the show before. And that is Chad, and we have a fantastic little YouTube raffle for you, Chad. What’s it all about? Yes, we have an exciting opportunity coming up for you to be able to win a free ticket to meet the Masters coming up in March or a $500 travel allowance. Here’s what you need to do to be able to win one of those things. We will be selecting a winner on March 4 when the contest ends. And all you have to do is go to the YouTube channel, which is youtube.com slash Jason Hartman real estate. Subscribe if you haven’t already, then pick any video to watch. There’s a variety of categories everything about real estate investing from finding the right markets, analyzing real estate deals, the economics of real estate investing, property management financing, there’s a whole wide range of videos that you can choose from, and choose one that you think would be interesting to you watch it, and then go to the comments section. And comment just a quick one sentence comment. Something that you learned from that video and make sure to include the hashtag j. h live in the comment and that will enter you into this raffle. Okay, so that’s real easy. You just go to youtube.com slash Jason Hartman real estate, subscribe to the channel, and then watch any video you like and make a comment below the video of one thing you learned include the hashtag j h live and that will enter you in the raffle to win a free ticket to meet the masters or a $500 travel allowance. This ends on March 4, so be sure to get it done before March 4. We look forward to seeing you at meet the masters. Thanks for joining us, Chad. Thanks. Welcome to this week’s edition of flashback Friday, your opportunity to get some good review by listening to episodes from the past
that Jason is hand picked to help you today in the present
and propel you into the future. Enjoy
Welcome to creating wealth with Jason Hartman. During this program, Jason is going to tell you some really exciting things that you probably haven’t thought of before and a new slant on investing fresh new approaches to America’s best investment that will enable you to create more wealth and happiness than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who not only talks the talk but walks the walk. He’s been a successful investor for 20 years and currently owns properties in 11 states and 17 cities. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to financial freedom, you really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 2:53
Welcome to the creating wealth show. This is your host Jason Hartman and this is episode number 354. Thanks so much for Joining me today, today our guests will be Steve page who’s going to talk about credit enhancement and credit improvement. But before we do that, I’ve got a guest back on the show for the third time. And that is, Mom. Yes, my mother’s back on the show. I know you always like it when I have her on the show. And she’s one of the most gritty people I know. And what I mean by grit is you know, I always describe my mother is someone who, who gets up quickly when she falls down. And it’s always impressed me her perseverance and tenacity. So we’ll talk a little bit about that today as it applies to real estate investing, and then we’ll get to our guest. Hey, Mom, welcome. How are you? Hi, Jason. I’m fine. Thank you. Good. Good. So where are you now?
Jason’s Mom 3:44
Yeah, in Pensacola in front of the dealer’s department store. do a little shopping.
Jason Hartman 3:50
Pensacola, Florida. No, no. Now what is a rich lady like you doing shopping at dillards? Isn’t dealers kinda like Macy’s or something? No, it’s The only major department store we have around here Oh really? Okay. Well, and Gulf Shores where you’re you’re building your big house. Well, I guess I should say it’s built you’re not building it anymore. Thank God is in Gulf Shores Alabama. So how far is that from Pensacola? You’re What about 30 minutes? 45 minutes away or an hour? About what
Jason’s Mom 4:18
about 45 minutes from where I am, right?
Jason Hartman 4:20
Yeah, I know that we did that drive before when I came to visit you. We drove down the Florida Gulf Coast there and it’s really nice over there. So So anyway, hey, you were recently out to visit me here in Arizona, and you were going to LA to deal with one of your rental properties. And I’m constantly amazed, you know, I give you a hard time about it. I don’t think it’s a very good idea the way you do it. You’re You’re like the ultimate do it yourself or you just like to do everything yourself.
Jason’s Mom 4:50
And so, you were doing something though, that involves some level of grit. So what were you doing in Los Angeles? Well, I was eating Being a tenant, actually the tenants are already been evicted. And I was simply there to put the pieces together to make the house rentable again. And that simply involves hiring people to get the job done and putting up my signs. If you want to talk about gritty that’s really grip going out and putting up those signs. I know
Jason Hartman 5:20
I know you crack me up, I manage some of my own properties, but most of them I have managers for and you I don’t think you have any managers anymore. You doing everything yourself now all of your probably your whole portfolio.
Jason’s Mom 5:31
No, I got rid of all of them. And I’m very happy to have done so
Jason Hartman 5:35
yeah, you just you just like doing it yourself. And you know, again, just for newer listeners who may not know my mother’s background, she started real estate investing back in 1976. In Southern California, where I grew up and has been in the last few years you’ve purchased some properties in Alabama and do you have one in Texas too? I can’t remember
Jason’s Mom 5:58
now I have. I have one golf course.
Jason Hartman 6:00
Yo, okay, Mississippi and Alabama. Yeah. So anyway, you know, I’m hoping to get you out of California and do 1031 exchanges on those properties. And we always argue about this RV ratio thing that you somehow don’t seem to want to understand. But we’ve talked about on past shows, but we don’t need to go into that, because I want to talk more about this concept of perseverance in the face of problems and setbacks and the concept of grit and played a little Ted video for the listeners on the subject of grit. So, first of all, you know, when I invited you on the show today, you said, well, Jason, do you want me to talk about my recent eviction and how easy it was? Why don’t you dress that for the listeners? What were you? What did you mean when you said that?
Jason’s Mom 6:44
Well, it’s, it just happened so fast. You know, I was thinking, what a terrible time of the year to have to re rent a house, Thanksgiving and Christmas. But within four days, the house was rented after it was cleaned up. So it just gets easier each and every At first, it was hard and you have to, I guess, show some grit in order to learn how to do things. And then it just be easier for you. So did you you hired an eviction service, right? Oh, yes, you must always hire an attorney. And the thing that I’m really beginning to learn is once they don’t start paying their rent on time, the sooner you move, the better off you are. Because when people don’t have the money to pay their rent on time, they start to let your house deteriorate also. And that’s where you’ve had the big clean up messes.
Jason Hartman 7:32
So in other words, act quickly and decisively in and get a bad tenant out, rather than horsing around right
Jason’s Mom 7:39
now, rather, whether it’s through an actual eviction or you simply persuade them to go and say, Look, I’ll be happy to pay your moving expenses, whatever, you know, sometimes that’s the easiest way to do it. Make the decision and move and and get rid of that.
Jason Hartman 7:58
Yeah, okay. So no When you say hire an attorney, some people have visions of, Oh, well, I’ve got to go to, you know, an attorney at a big law firm and sit down in their office and explain the whole situation, but evictions are done by what I call attorney Mills usually, where they process hundreds, maybe even thousands of them every month. And they just charge a low flat fee. How much does it cost?
Jason’s Mom 8:24
Oh, yes, that’s exactly when you go to you never go to a general attorney to do an eviction, always go to an eviction attorney, a specialist and, you know, there’s a few hundred dollars for this and a few hundred dollars for that. But basically, the addiction ends up costing you $600. If it isn’t if it’s not been tested, right, right, but
Jason Hartman 8:43
that’s in higher price, Southern California you’re talking about?
Jason’s Mom 8:47
Yes, that’s what it costs in Southern California.
Jason Hartman 8:49
Yeah, so it’s generally less than other places around the country. You know, and I’ve noticed about $400 is kind of the marker three to $400, even 300 for some of the less expensive areas now do they follow through and go and get the judgment against the tenant, or just do the eviction the one that you used?
Jason’s Mom 9:08
Well, I usually serve the three day notice to pay rent or quit. That’s the first start of it. But I hire a process server for $50 to do that for me now, because I’m not, you know, right next door, I’m in another state. And then once you have the proof of service, you simply turn that over to the eviction attorney and they take everything from there.
Jason Hartman 9:29
Yeah. Okay. All right. And so how did it go? You said it was so easy. I mean, tell us what happened.
Jason’s Mom 9:34
Well, the addiction is, you know, you don’t even have to do anything. That’s the attorneys job. That’s what you’re paying them the $600 or $400 for but once the people vacate and usually they do vacate before the sheriff actually has to come and physically remove them. Once they vacate then you should be there to clean the place up and get it ready for rental again. And this time, all I did was I hired too many individuals, one real estate agent gave me her general contractor type guy. I paid him 1300 dollars he completely cleaned up and take the place. And then I paid the another person $500 to haul away all the stuff. And that man really worked like a Yeoman. He has True Grit. I would say he worked for five days carrying out her trash. But it was totally clean after that.
Jason Hartman 10:29
And how long was that tenant there? How long did you have this data?
Jason’s Mom 10:32
The cat was there for probably seven, eight years, but I did I had a really nice security deposit and almost $3,000 security deposit from them and how much was the rent? The rent was? Well, this was the tenant whose husband became incarcerated. Originally the ramp was about 1500 dollars, but I hit I lower the rent when that happened. out of the goodness of my heart today because This is sigma mom and she had kids and the grant that she ended up paying was 1100 and $38 a month.
Jason Hartman 11:07
Okay, so 1138 Where do you get such a funny number like that? Was there section eight involved?
Jason’s Mom 11:12
Well, no, no, I was just doing percentage row. Okay,
Jason Hartman 11:15
I got it. I got it. Okay. So this tenant was there for seven or eight years, though.
Jason’s Mom 11:19
Yes. But during that time, I practically had no expenses while she was there. Right. Right. But expenses. expenses. The expenses came at, during after she left at the turnover.
Jason Hartman 11:31
Yeah, in turning the unit. Yeah. Good. So yeah, interesting. So really, you probably did okay, on that by the time you paid for the eviction paid for the cleanup. Sounds like you spent about 1800 dollars on rehab. And you know, you had a good security deposit. So you were probably pretty much even on that deal, right?
Jason’s Mom 11:48
Yeah. Well, I lost a month’s worth of rent a full month.
Jason Hartman 11:51
Okay, so 1100 and $38. there for the month rent. Right? Right, right. Yeah. Okay, well, let’s talk about this sub grit grit has been defined as courage and resolve strength of character, the ability to keep going in the face of setbacks and incredible odds sometimes. What would you say about that, especially as applies to real estate investing?
Jason’s Mom 12:15
Well, I say that if you don’t have any grit then you don’t belong in real estate investing, because things do happen. Hang on a second. I’d say if you don’t have any grit, you don’t belong at anything. Well, Jason, most of my friends, they don’t have any grit. They just don’t see things through if it becomes an all difficult they just hang up their head and walk away. Yeah, I can’t believe some sometimes.
Jason Hartman 12:47
It’s really amazing. You know, if you if you want to be successful in any endeavor, you’ve got to have grit. You’ve got to treat it like a marathon, not a sprint. And so many people like use up all their energy Or their willpower is so early in the game, and they just don’t they don’t understand that this is life is a marathon, right?
Jason’s Mom 13:09
Well, I think it happens that we don’t have any expectations of kids anymore. And when and when people don’t have anything expected of them, they just don’t do they just kind of flop through life.
Jason Hartman 13:23
Yeah, I would agree. I would agree having some expectations, expecting someone to show up and do the job and keep their promises and be on time and be prepared or dressed accordingly, depending on what the job is or entails. Certainly, certainly true but there’s a quote about that to 80% I maybe it was Woody Allen or something 80% of success is just showing up. And you know, if you just get there and and show up and do things, things tend to fall into place, right?
Jason’s Mom 13:53
Yes. When you are there when you’re out there doing things you know, you have to circulate to percolate in that one. happens because opportunities occur when you’re out doing things. If you stay holed up in your little environment, always taking the same route to work, always just doing the same thing at work, things don’t seem to happen to you and for you. So you have to just be out there and put yourself open to the world.
Jason Hartman 14:22
You know, what constantly amazes me mom is how many people just want to they want to figure it all out before they start. I mean, you know, when you first started investing in real estate, which has really been the key to your life success, it wasn’t the businesses that you owned. I know that those were very tough experiences. And it wasn’t like having a great job or anything like that. It was buying those properties and just managing them over the years that that made you wealthy right?
Jason’s Mom 14:54
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And at first I didn’t know how to manage that very well. I will just grateful that someone rented a house from me. I mean, I was so surprised.
Jason’s Mom 15:09
The first house that I ever rented, but those people said, Well, I’ll take it. I nearly fainted.
Jason’s Mom 15:21
I couldn’t believe that you could make money like this. That
Jason Hartman 15:24
was what I couldn’t. Yeah, it’s it’s pretty awesome. But you’ve got something that has a universal need. You’ve got housing and everybody on earth needs a place to live. Not everybody has one, as we know, but they’re, they’re just in such demand.
Jason’s Mom 15:36
Right? Absolutely. And the fact that that housing is in such demand, I mean, it just, it came home again when I was in Long Beach renting this house. I mean, this is like Thanksgiving and Christmas. And I rented that house in four days. And people call keep they keep calling and calling in. so unhappy that they didn’t get a chance. So that rental market is very, very good.
Jason Hartman 16:06
Yeah, but you know what that means to me? Hey, wait a sec, though, is it’s that easy. It means your rent is too low. You’re not asking enough money. I mean, what do you say?
Jason’s Mom 16:15
I was just gonna say On second thought I should have rented a place for 1500 dollars a month instead of 1400. Right.
Jason Hartman 16:23
And you know what I think about the whole California thing and I know that after your house is totally finished. I mean, I guess, I guess your big tell everybody about your house update. Everybody always asked me about your big mansion in your building. But I mean, it’s built now but that was a pretty gritty project, wasn’t it? Yeah, I know.
Jason’s Mom 16:43
Jason, if anything ever took True Grit, it was seeing that house due to end. But you know what, I always had this dream that I would live in a great big beautiful house with column and that goes along with your sales. You know, it’s a marathon. It’s not just a sprint, because if it were just a sprint, I never would have gotten that house built because I had problems that I couldn’t believe what happened. Yeah, right. Right.
Jason Hartman 17:13
You know, I say to anybody just don’t get into don’t build a house. I mean, it’s just if you’re married and you want to get a divorce, just build a house together.
Jason’s Mom 17:23
Yeah, I would say that would happen to anyone. Yeah.
Jason Hartman 17:26
I mean, I mean, that’s just an unbelievably difficult project. I just find getting the contractors to show up at a house. You know, where I’m like some of my new houses that I bought over the years and lived in you know, to do the landscaping to my God, what a hassle the number of phone calls back and forth and emails and cost overruns. Gosh, what
Jason’s Mom 17:49
a hassle. Well, you know what, if you are living in a metropolitan a large metropolitan area, you can get work done a lot more easily. Because there are just people there who have the skills. If you’re in the little dinky small town, that’s when you have the problem, because they will charge you a fortune. And they don’t have the skills and there’s no competition.
Jason Hartman 18:15
there’s not as much supply. So you’re referring to where you live, which is called shores Alabama,
Jason’s Mom 18:18
right? Oh, absolutely.
Jason Hartman 18:22
Interesting. Okay. All right, fair enough. So let me let you know is we’re talking about this subject of perseverance. And well, one more question be I want to play this little Ted video, a little clip from it here. But you said when you started buying properties and renting them out to people, you didn’t really know what you were doing. And I think one of the key points there is people have to somehow overcome this idea of you know, I talked about the people who are always getting ready to get ready, getting ready to get ready. Yeah, they’re not getting ready to do some analysis, paralysis of analysis. Exactly. And And so getting ready to get ready and you know, people who want to like figure everything out before they jump in and do it. But pretty much everything in life is on the job training, isn’t
Jason’s Mom 19:06
it? Oh, yeah, definitely real estate. Yeah. So, so you didn’t know everything. But what did you know when you got into it? I mean, did you know anything? Or did you just did you just dive in? When I was working for the Leukemia society? I just heard that a lot of these board members made a lot of money in real estate. Now, I didn’t have any idea what kind of real estate it was. But I had the the simple minded concept. Well, if you started buying houses, eventually you would probably get pretty rich. And that’s where I started from. And and they were selling a lot of government repos at the time. And it just seemed like the thing to do because they were inexpensive. You couldn’t make too big a mistake, right? No, right, right.
Jason Hartman 19:56
Remember, you’re listening to flashback Friday. Our new episodes are published every Monday and Wednesday. The mistakes aren’t that big and they’re pretty correctable when it comes to real estate investing. But you can still make mistakes. You got to know what you’re doing. And you got to have a team, you got to have people that help you advise you can give you referrals and just support your effort and doing it. But yeah, getting ready to get ready. That just doesn’t work. You never get anywhere in life with that kind of mentality. Hey, you heard a little bit of this video. Why don’t we play this Ted video? And you know, we’ll have a couple comments and then we’ll wrap it up. Okay, mom. Okay, great, Jason.
Angela Duckworth 20:38
When I was 27 years old, I left a very demanding job in management consulting, for a job that was even more demanding teaching. I went to teach seventh graders math in the New York City public schools. And like any teacher, I made quizzes and tests, I gave out homework assignments. When the work came back, I calculated grades What struck me was that IQ was not the only difference between my best and my worst students.
Jason Hartman 21:09
Now to that, I would say da you need some highly educated academic Ted speaker, to say that that’s a surprise that it’s not about IQ that’s not about brains. I mean, it’s about perseverance. It’s about grit. And by the way, I didn’t mention it, but this is Angela Duckworth giving this TED Talk. But any comments on that mom, before we go back to the video, what
Jason’s Mom 21:37
happened? She didn’t know this well,
Jason Hartman 21:41
because because it takes a big research project to figure that out. And, you know, I’m not making fun of this speaker. I’m just making fun of the little point that she, I mean, I think she’s a great speaker and she really does have some good insights and nuances in this in the short clip we’re going to play, but it’s just like, that’s, that’s seems so obvious right to people with common sense. It’s like the question, what would you rather have? Or what do you think is the the best predictor of success? Is it academic smarts and book smarts or is it street smarts? Now? I would say street smarts. I think you would agree, right? Oh, absolutely. tenacity, tenacity, tenacity. That is what you have to have. And I think that’s a synonym for grit. Yeah, yeah. But but it but it’s it’s real world street smarts. And the problem is that in life, the only place you get the real world is street smarts, is from the real world. And that means you got to do things to learn them. You’ve got to have that on the job training. You’ve got to be willing to dive in without knowing everything. And you know, a lot of times without knowing much at all, and just be a little bit reckless. I actually think there’s a certain prudent amount of recklessness that is highly beneficial. And one of the books I really liked As by Michael Masterson, that’s his pen name. But Michael Masterson who wrote a book called ready fire aim. And I gotta tell you, I just see over and over I know in my own life and your life and in the lives of so many people I know and, and so many clients of ours, those who succeed versus those who don’t, are the people that are willing to ready fire aim, and not aim first
Jason’s Mom 23:25
tasted every time I would buy a house. There’s always a thought, should I or shouldn’t I? But I thought, why not? Try it, you know, do it. It doesn’t seem like you know, it’s a bad idea. It’s a good idea. And work out the problems as they come work it out as you go. Definitely.
Jason Hartman 23:43
Okay, let’s get back to the academic Ted speaker here. Okay,
Angela Duckworth 23:48
some of my strongest performers did not have stratospheric IQ scores. Some of my smartest kids weren’t doing so well. And that got me thinking kinds of things you need to learn in seventh grade math. Sure, they’re hard ratios decimals, the area of a parallelogram. But these concepts are not impossible. And I was firmly convinced that every one of my students could learn the material if they worked hard and long enough. After several more years of teaching, I came to the conclusion that what we need an education is a much better understanding of students and learning from a motivational perspective, from a psychological perspective. In education, the one thing we know how to measure best is IQ. But what if doing well in school and in life depends on much more than your ability to learn quickly and easily. So I left the classroom and then went to graduate school to become a psychologist. I started studying kids and adults in all kinds of super challenging settings. And in every study my question was, who is successful here and why? My research team and I went to West Point Military Academy, we tried to predict which cadets would stay in military training and which would drop out. We went to the National Spelling Bee, and tried to predict which children would advance farthest in competition. We studied rookie teachers working in really tough neighborhoods, asking which teachers are still going to be here in teaching by the end of the school year, and of those who will be the most effective at improving learning outcomes for their students. We partnered with private companies asking which of these salespeople is going to keep their jobs and who’s going to earn the most money and all those very different contexts. One characteristic emerged as a significant predictor of success. And it wasn’t social intelligence. It wasn’t good. Looks good. physical health, and it wasn’t IQ. It was grit. grit is passion and perseverance for very long term goals. grit is having stamina. grit is sticking with your future, day in day out, not just for the week, not just for the month, but for years, and working really hard to make that future a reality. grit is living life like it’s a marathon, not a sprint.
Jason Hartman 26:31
I think that’s an incredibly important thing. She just said. grit is stamina, and grit is living life. Like it’s a marathon, not a sprint. Any thoughts mom?
Jason’s Mom 26:42
Yeah, I agree with that. I also agree, I think that you’ve got to have passion for what you want out of your life. And I know that my passion was this house. And you’ve just got to be passionate about things and you’ve got to get rid of the idea of everything should be instant gratification, because some things take a long, long time.
Jason Hartman 27:05
They do. And then you know real estate investing is definitely the slow path to wealth. I don’t know if there really is any fast path, except for the very few people and the stories that you hear over and over at people who got lucky. And the lesson I’d rather be lucky than good any day of the week. But most of us aren’t going to get that lucky. I mean, I just kind of subscribe to the idea of the harder you work the luckier you get. That’s a
Jason’s Mom 27:31
very good thing to subscribe.
Jason Hartman 27:33
I would agree it’s a pretty sure bet you pretty much know that work. The other kind of luck of winning the lottery or having the startup business and having a IPO for a billion dollars, or doing Snapchat, I can’t believe they turned down that offer from Google for $3 billion on a company that makes zero money and has no revenue and no plan to monetize. It’s crazy. They were lucky. We’ll see how lucky they get in the future. I don’t know. That seemed like a crazy You deal to turn down. But yeah, the other thing she said, the speaker here, Angela Duckworth is she said, the grit is sticking with your future, sticking with your future. And that’s the same thing you mentioned mom is about having passion for what you do,
Jason’s Mom 28:15
right? Yeah. And stick directedness you know, what am I, as always called it stick to itiveness was that Abby said that? No, that was an easy.
Jason Hartman 28:25
Stick to itiveness. That’s a good that’s a good one I
Jason’s Mom 28:28
like but you know, this gal who’s speaking has a lot of grit. I mean, she was in a management job and then she quits that she goes teaching school and then she starts doing research. She has a lot of grit. She could she could. She could write a book about it.
Jason Hartman 28:46
Maybe she has I’m not sure if Angela Duckworth has written the book she probably has. Okay, we got a few more minutes of this video. Let’s listen in.
Angela Duckworth 28:53
I started studying grit in the Chicago Public Schools. I asked thousands of high school juniors to Take grit questionnaires, and then weed it around more than a year to see who would graduate. Turns out that grittier kids were significantly more likely to graduate. Even when I match them on every characteristic, I could measure, things like family income, standardized achievement test scores, even how Safe Kids felt when they were at school. So it’s not just at West Point or the National Spelling Bee that grip matters. It’s also in school, especially for kids at risk for dropping out. To me, the most shocking thing about grit is how little we know how little science knows about building it. Every day parents and teachers asked me, How do I build Britain kids? What do I do to teach kids a solid work ethic? How do I keep them motivated for the long run? The honest answer is, I don’t know. What I do know is that talent doesn’t make you gritty data show very clearly that there are many talented individuals who simply do not follow through on their commitments. In fact, in our data, grit is usually unrelated or even inversely related to measures of talent.
Jason Hartman 30:16
Now, I just want to say something about that, because I think it’s kind of interesting. Being talented or being smart, I think are almost disadvantage in in when it comes to success in life. And I’ll tell you why. It’s kind of like being born into a rich family. And you know what neither of us were right, mom.
Jason’s Mom 30:36
Yeah. Jason, you know, also another kind of analogy of this is when success comes to you in high school, and you’re the football star and you’re the prom queen and everything a lot. When it’s when success comes too early into easily, then it seems to have destroyed any chance that these people will ever have. Any grit or tenaciousness and pursuing their goals. Yeah, right.
Jason Hartman 31:04
I agree. I agree that and, and the idea of the football quarterback and the prom queen is they they peaked too early. They peaked too soon. And a lot of those people don’t have much success in life because then they all think it’s going to be easy. So really talented people or really smart people. They they expect it, they think it’s going to come too easily. They don’t think they should have to work. It’s almost like an entitlement attitude really. Or someone born with a silver spoon in their mouth. It just isn’t the way the world works. And those people are in for a rude awakening most of the time.
Jason’s Mom 31:41
Yes, they they seem to their their whole future life is just a relive of what happened in high school, when when they were when they were at the top of the world. But life isn’t like that.
Jason Hartman 31:56
Right? There’s a lot more to it than that. Okay, we’re almost finished here.
Angela Duckworth 32:00
So far the best idea I’ve heard about building grit in kids is something called growth mindset. This is an idea developed at Stanford University by Carol Dweck. And it is the belief that the ability to learn is not fixed, that it can change with your effort. Dr. Dweck has shown that when kids read and learn about the brain, and how it changes and grows in response to challenge, they’re much more likely to persevere when they fail, because they don’t believe that failure is a permanent condition. So growth mindset is a great idea for building grit. But we need more. And that’s where I’m going to end my remarks because that’s where we are. That’s the work that stands before us. We need to take our best ideas are strongest intuitions, and we need to test them. We need to measure whether we’ve been successful and we have to be willing to fail to be Wrong, just start over again with lessons learned. In other words, we need to be gritty about getting our kids grittier. Thank you
Jason Hartman 33:10
so interesting. You know, I just, I don’t think that’s like the best talk on grit. But I’ve never heard any other talks on grit. You know, I just, I just think it’s good. It makes some great points on what it takes to succeed in life. So, any final thoughts you want to wrap up with before we get to our guest mom?
Jason’s Mom 33:27
Uh, well, you know, I never heard of talk on grid either. And I think she brings something valuable to the world of education, because it’s not just the high grades that you get, that does not always determine your success. It’s what you do, to keep learning and to keep doing in life that determines your success.
Jason Hartman 33:49
It’s what you do with what you’ve got. Whatever you’ve got, Voltaire said something like, you know, each player in life cannot choose the cards that life deals him or her, but must choose how to play the cards that Have in order to win the game. And you know and that’s the point we’ve all just got to jump in use what we have and move forward but the people who will succeed the most are the people that keep going that keep forging ahead and just never ever, ever give up. And I think that’s that’s that’s the people the rewards come to. I mean, you know how many times over the years have you had disappointments with your real estate investing and problems and things like you talked about? Hey, Jason, do you want me to talk about how easy it is to evict someone? No funny thing. But it’s really like the first time that happened, where you were really thrown for a loop and concerned and depressed and freaked out about.
Jason’s Mom 34:46
Yeah, I didn’t know what to do. I mean, I didn’t know what addictions attorneys were. I had no clue. So you just you just have to learn and if there’s little courses along the way, like local real estate estate associations, you know, the investors, Real Estate Association oh my god cast,
Jason’s Mom 35:07
vacations, podcasts, learn from those. Learn from his lectures. Now it’s life is a bunch of learning and once you stop learning and applying yourself, nothing is going to happen for you anymore.
Jason Hartman 35:20
Well Ray Kroc, the founder of the McDonald’s franchise chain, you know, he had a great quote about that. He said, as long as you’re green, you’re growing. And as soon as you’re ripe, you begin to rot. And he was talking about making life and ongoing learning process when he said that so it’s a great quote. Well, Hey, Mom, stay gritty. And I will talk to you soon. Thanks for joining us today and and talking to the listeners again.
Jason’s Mom 35:43
Okay, Jason, thanks for having me. Bye.
Jason Hartman 35:49
Be sure to call into the creating wealth show and get your real estate investing and economics questions answered by me personally, we’d love to have you call in. Share your experiences. Ask your questions. And a lot of other people listening, have those very same questions. So be a participant in the show at 480-788-7823. That’s 480-788-7823 or anywhere in the world via Skype, Jason Hartman, ROI, that’s Jason Hartman ROI for return on investment, be sure to call into the show. And we are going to enter all of the callers in a drawing for some nice prizes as well. So be sure to call into the show and I look forward to talking with you soon.
Jason Hartman 36:43
Hey, it’s my pleasure. Welcome, Steve page the show He is an expert in the area of credit enhancement. And this is a very much talked about topic in the last few years with the financial crisis. Many people have had challenges with their credit and we’re here today to talk about how you can improve Your scores. Steve, welcome. How are you?
Steve Paige 37:02
I’m fine. Thank you, Jason. Good, good. Well, it’s good to have you on the show.
Jason Hartman 37:05
So first of all, maybe give the listeners Steve an idea as to the the problem here. And then let’s talk about solutions.
Steve Paige 37:13
The problem, I’ve done this for 29 years, and the problem seems to be the same as it was back in, you know, 1980. And that is the understanding that people have about credit and the misinformation that’s out there, that seems to just run amok and just as it’s exploited, like crazy, this lack of understanding credit and credit scores.
Jason Hartman 37:36
And so do you have any stats or are there are these even known? I’m not sure is, you know, how many people have certain scores and how much of the population this affects?
Steve Paige 37:47
Well, yeah, there’s, there was a study done a lot of times there’s a couple of scores I look at there’s the literary survey scores that are put out by the the G. Gao and it’s not the government accounting office, the state government accounting Ability office. It’s really funny to hear those words combined.
Jason Hartman 38:04
That’s an oxymoron.
Steve Paige 38:05
accountability is interesting. Yeah, but they the the literary survey say that everybody reads it a seventh grade level. And the Federal Reserve did a study back in 2004 with a guy named Avery calem. And canner and came out with statistics and show that kind of the knowledge that people had about credit. And then there was other studies done by what they call the See, the PRG USP RG stands for public interest research groups. And and these are good studies and Consumer Federation of America. Here’s the three things that to look at one, only 2% of the general public you can name the three credit bureaus so if you’re in the if you can name all three credit bureaus you in the top 2% of understanding or knowledge nationwide. The other one is because we read it a seventh grade level independent study done by the government came out the said that in looking at bank statements and the backs of bank statements and the fonts, and the came to the conclusion that those were written on a 25 year education level. So 1515 years, 17 years old, 15 years out of high school of higher education would require you to completely comprehend what’s just on your bank statement. Now collectively, we read it a seventh grade level, The Washington Post Chicago times in New York Times, all those are written, believe it or not at a seventh grade level. So it’s very unconscionable for us. And the definition of that is the exploitation of the underprivileged, the unsophisticated or the educated. I mean, it’s completely unconscionable to have us trying to understand credit reports, understanding bank statements as a nation that we read at a seventh grade level and these things are written on a 25 high you know,
Jason Hartman 39:45
this is this is scary on so many levels. First of all, I thought newspapers weren’t at the eighth grade level. I was heard it may have been dumbed down since I heard that stat several years ago, but it is that’s just really scary that people have so little education now. You know, a complete Failure of our education system in this country, it’s just a disaster. But that is another subject for another show.
Steve Paige 40:08
there’s a there’s a motive there though. Jason, there’s a there’s a very clear motive. And that is a study done by this Consumer Federation of America and wamu back in 2003 estimated that if me and you and everybody around could raise our credit scores, just 30 points, we would save as a nation $20 billion. Now it’s a $20 billion industry to not teach you how to understand and worked and understanding raising your credit score and even using the word credit score is misleading, because that they market credit scores on TV and those are fake fake fake scores. There they are of no value to anybody because they are not the same scores the banks look at and they don’t tell people that
Jason Hartman 40:54
just a reminder, you’re listening to flashback Friday. Our new episodes are published. Every Monday and every Wednesday. Okay, so So let’s talk about scores. So when people say scores, they’re usually referring to FICO scores, right?
Steve Paige 41:12
Fair is absolute. No, that’s we mean you talk about it in the circles of the banking industry and lending institutions. That’s this what we should say. That’s not what the general public hears.
Jason Hartman 41:23
And what what is the ideal score? Is it still 720?
Steve Paige 41:26
You know, there, they can go there, the ranges go like this FIFO I’ll give you the five second history of fika. They were created in 1954. But we infer and realizing came together almost like a crystal ball algorithm that could forecast it, call it regression analysis technology. They’ve changed it now to what they call analytic technologies. And what they’ve done is be able to forecast how a consumer with with a number and the ideal score is a good 720 is good, but the scores range from 300 to 850. Generally, there are some exceptions with TransUnion Empirica score five goes from 336 to 843. But in the ranges of between 720 and eight, you know, 820 it’s just bragging rights, you’re doing really well that you have to know the source of it. And there are three scores to always look at each credit bureau has access to fika, which is an independent company that they have access to, they have to pay hard money for to get your three scores, like in the context of a mortgage. And there are three FICO scores. And so when you see a commercial or TV and people say my credit score is it should be plural. My credit scores my
Jason Hartman 42:34
credit FICO score, because there are three of them.
Steve Paige 42:37
There are three crack.
Jason Hartman 42:38
Okay, well, what can be done about improving credit? You know, you hear all these claims? I mean, can foreclosures and bankruptcies and late payments, can they all be removed collection accounts? Can they be removed from someone’s credit report or those just big bogus claims?
Steve Paige 42:54
You know, they can you know, and I’ve done that over the years, I think we’ve estimated 3 million things have been deleted. Through our efforts in the last 29 years, but you have a lot more control of raising someone’s credit scores than you do trying to perfect the file. The goal in any kind of a context is credit worthiness not perfection. Because I think people make a wild wild claim when they start saying they can delete this and this and this, deleting credit, or the the business of doing that involves a science and art, and some luck, all thrown into the same mix. And that’s what helps people so yes, we’ve deleted all those things before. But the introduction of credit scores, FICO scores, has allowed us to measure and have some sort of a milestone to know when we’ve achieved what we’re trying to, you know, to get there, and that is the credit worthiness, and you said it best. The 720 range is where we try to target for everybody.
Jason Hartman 43:46
So how do you remove things from people’s credit reports? I mean, you know, and what I’m getting to here is how someone should choose a company to help them do this, or should they do it themselves and What are the pitfalls of that? They’re probably a lot of them. But first of all, what’s what’s the tactic? I mean, I’ve heard Well, it’s it involves, you know, writing letters or no inquiries to the credit bureaus and asking them to remove things. And
Steve Paige 44:12
now when you hear people write letters, you want to put your hand on your wallet and run. The reason is, is because that technology, I started a company, I don’t know if me if, if mean, you can drop names, but I started the one of the world’s it is the world’s largest Credit Repair Company even today. And as I said, I created that company. And that was the strategy back then. This all started back in the 70s, a gentleman by the name of Senator William Proxmire push through what they call the FCRA formula is known as the Fair Credit Reporting Act. And people have milked and use that over the years of realizing that and it gave consumers the rights to question for the first time to audit as you would anything on your credit report, and what it means the audit consists of a 30 day rule that says that you have the creditor has 30 days to verify it falls under 15. us code 1681. And it’s nothing new. But when you hear, I should say, if you’re considering having someone work on your credit, what you don’t want to do is have them use a lot of $10 words like that, and tell them if they’re gonna write letters and start doing it. that technology is old. And and I also
Jason Hartman 45:23
what has it been replaced with them?
Steve Paige 45:25
Well, there’s different things called an ACD v. these are these are things that they bureaus have tried to automate. And the reason the letter writing campaign isn’t as good because traditional credit repair this is collectively everywhere is the problem here, Jason, is that it requires a dance to be done between three people, the consumer, the credit, the credit bureau, and an us helping the consumer. And if anybody breaks that chain, then it falls apart and the one that normally always, consistently, historically has always broken that chain is the consumer not giving the report so if you’re dealing business with a company that says we’re going to delete this first place to the radical claims of deleting anything. I hear this all the time, 14 day deleting this 30 day deleting that, again, put your hand on your wallet and run if you have someone telling you they’re going to delete your bankruptcy and is and the word guarantee, definitely run sprint. Okay, so you have to be able to be able to say, what are you doing and how you doing? And if they start saying you’re writing letters, they’re old now. No, now when
Jason Hartman 46:25
i when i say writing letters, you know, I’m using that as a bit of a figure of speech. And that may be an email or an electronic inquiry. But they’re, they’re disputing a charge. I mean, what is the actual mechanism do they do that and
Steve Paige 46:38
mega ism is the mechanism was back in 2004. Back in there was a set of laws passed that were and adjacent to the FCRA called fact the fair actually credit transaction act. And lispy girl back in 2001, Senator woman out of California push through Senate Bill 1607 that created a chain reaction of giving consumers more rights. Senator approxima gave us rights in 1970 that let us look at the reports back in 2004. We even you had more rights as a consumer to question these things so that this vehicle, if you will, and what you’re alluding to it is correct Is that you, you first order your credit reports, but if a consumer does it on their own, there’s a few problems to credit bureaus. Remember they’re not they don’t they can’t charge for this. So they’re really not everything’s government mandated. No, but no one has stepped forward and said we we want to make consumers right if they can market it and profit from it, they will and so the strategy is to order their credit reports Now where do you get them Where do you buy them and that’s where the pitfalls come into. You’ve got a source to go to, that’s not going to sell you a fake score. Now the credit bureaus want to make money now any of your listeners, any of your listeners listening to this, we will order a free credit report to for any we don’t need a reason we don’t need any money. We don’t need a credit card. We will order a free credit report to their house will be sent to their home, only if they can if they connect it with you and three You That way they know that the benefits of hearing this and that way, we can sometimes get all three for free but we can definitely get one, maybe two, sometimes all three. But But what let’s talk about correction. I mean, you know, everybody pretty much knows nowadays they can get their credit reports once a year they can get them from all three bureaus for free. We get them we can get them any we can get them once a week for free.
Jason Hartman 48:20
Got it? Got it. Okay, so what what do we do, though, along the lines of improving credit of getting these derogatory things off a credit report? I mean, I guess the first question really, before you even answer that is, is it legal to do this? It seems sort of crazy that if someone filed bankruptcy or had a foreclosure or didn’t pay something on time, that they go back and they asked the Bureau to remove this item. I mean, On what grounds you’re just gonna look at you and say, hey, you’re crazy. Why would we remove this? He didn’t pay on time.
Steve Paige 48:55
A great question. Great question Jason. And at the very beginning or I started This industry back in 84. It was kind of a moral issue for me of, am I doing something wrong? Now the law clearly said that you could and here’s the misnomer. I did a thesis on this, and this is called the seven year myth. And in the subcommittee hearings back in 1990. In the Clinton administration, early 90s. They had the subcommittee hearings of Urban Affairs and coinage and Richard Lehman, who was the subcommittee Chairman asked William Kurth, the president of associated credit bureaus that question, that question was, Why are things on credit reports for seven years? That’s the myth, because the credit bureau is in the same business I’m in except they erase and repair credit every seven years. So the magic question is, is why is seven years So? So, you know, sacred? What was there a study done? Did it say that people change their lives every seven years? I mean, if you put it in perspective, that’s not that’s like not getting your diploma in this as a senior because of a test you failed. In the fifth grade. I mean, the distance between that seven years is a reality it’s really not in perspective. And there was no answer to that other countries, Italy, France, Germany, none of them have adopted that same strategy because this country when it adopted these rules, and these regulations centered a proper setting, here’s what makes it legal. It couldn’t be on there any longer than seven years, it could come off anytime it wants to. And the law says, and I’ve done this so many times I can quote it, it’s very, very easy 15 years code 1681 623 a seven or actually 611 a section A, if the completeness of accuracy of any item of information contained in the file is disputed by the consumer. As such dispute is directly conveyed to the consumer reporting agency by the consumer, the consumer reporting a show within a reasonable period of time which has been defined as 30 days. reinvestigate and record the current status of that information unless it has reasonable grounds to believe that the dispute with consumer is frivolous and irrelevant. Here’s the key. If after such reinvestigation such as found to be inaccurate or can no longer be verified. So reporting she’ll properly delete such information is your moral imperative. Now, it has a couple caveats to this one is the federal the federal registry is recorded that the Bureau’s have every right to leave things on your file, if they know it can’t be verified. So the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Now, you asked another question is that what should people do when they order their credit report? Believe it or not 47% of all Americans are impacted by something that’s very, very important. And that is something that’s not on the credit that’s hurting your scores, their real credit scores by 50 to 80 points. It was not there. And it’s bit was a strategy from some banks and I don’t know if I should say who they are, but there’s one of the biggest banks they are Capital One Okay. One had no hesitation to leave off. Here’s the key. They left off your available credit line, and that affected cat k Avery Cantor and Kayla the Federal Reserve caught this Found out that 47% of all consumers are missing an available credit line on their credit report. Now, here’s the here’s the strategy, Capital One, and we can only guess their intentions. Capital One is competing with all these other major banks. They send it in the mail, they buy your name, you’re a commodity, they buy your name from the bureau at a certain credit score level. They market you as soon as you get that credit card from Capital One because there’s no available, the available credit line is not on there. The moment you use that card for $1 or $10. Guess what the FICO algorithm assumes
Jason Hartman 52:35
it’s sorry, it goes down it says all your credits used up Okay,
Steve Paige 52:38
next your card for $1 huh? Guess how it benefits Capital One, you fall off the radar. Now you’re at a 620 when you’re really at 720 they know that
Jason Hartman 52:47
okay, but but what falling off the radar What do you mean? You mean so other credit card companies don’t solicit you?
Steve Paige 52:53
Exactly. You Jake. Perfect. Jason. Exactly. Exactly.
Jason Hartman 52:58
Wow. And did they get an Did they get in big trouble for that?
Steve Paige 53:01
They did back in 2007. Three, this is America and three women out of new MIT out of North Carolina came together and sued the credit bureaus for allowing that to take place. I remember that hearing the, the, the the PR was spoke about this on c span and she said it was their proprietary right to report whatever, as long as it was accurate that there was no law about admitting anything. It was it was what they said had to be an act had to be accurate, verifiable, it’s very clear. And then they acquiesced and change that and added it and almost overnight 57 million consumers scores went up 50 to 80 points by adding that available credit line on their credit reports. Amazing,
Jason Hartman 53:42
very interesting. Okay. So let’s go back to the enhancement and repair issue. Okay, what what do we do so, what I mean what how does your company do it? You do electronic inquiries to say take this item off,
Steve Paige 53:54
kind of kind of so what happens is, is you need to order what it is is you already The the credit report and you first have to understand how to read it and understand it. So what we do as a company is we, we call it kind of a financial GPS and you order your credit reports and then teaching you how to read them because it’s like reading three different languages. Be aware of what’s there now, there’s a misnomer that inquiries are somehow hurting your credit and affecting your score. There’s a reason why that is absolutely untrue. And and I can verify it 100 times but the prevailing wisdom for everybody is is that they are and I you know, so paradigm I don’t feel like changing. So don’t I would tell people don’t pay attention to the inquiries unless you’re afraid of identity theft if your identity theft is something that’s there, and identity theft is not as prevailing as everybody thinks, AIG will sell you or me or anybody identity theft insurance as a wholesaler for a million dollars for five bucks a year. I mean, it’s absolutely if identity theft was huge, and an issue out there and lifelock was saving everybody’s lives. I don’t think he would sell identity theft insurance for five bucks. For a million bucks I it just doesn’t make sense so get your credit report look at what the informations there I always like to have people have one name I always delete all your phone numbers I there’s no reason for the credit bureau to have all your phone numbers remember their marketing all of this stuff so we delete the phone numbers we delete previous addresses anything because you are being marketed. So it’s not like it’s an application for a loan the application for the loan has nothing to do with the addresses it has to do with what’s on your file. So look at the personal information we don’t I personally do not like all that stuff on there because it again you’re being sold to who knows where all the time. So give them just enough information to be able to be credit worthy. Get a
Jason Hartman 55:42
bank makes sense. But But what do we do next? Let’s talk about broken so
Steve Paige 55:46
you get your credit report. Consumer I don’t want I don’t like consumers to try to take an initial reaction with it. I like them to be able to be aware of it and to make contact with you on the rest of it. I used to advocate that consumers did things on their own. problem is they mess it up. So you’re in. And here’s where you said it best about 20 minutes ago, 15 minutes ago, and that is that correcting stuff on the file. The misleading thing here is you’re in the game of raising your score. If correcting things on your file is going to raise your credit score, then do up. If it’s not, then don’t dunk, because sometimes there’s things on credit reports that are your benefit. And the illusion is is that if I correct it, and these are things like no, I paid this off here. If you had a collection account on your credit, and you paid it and it didn’t show paid, I wouldn’t argue that it was paid, because you bought seven more years from that date that you proved it. What I would argue is that it’s incorrect and make and put the burden of proof on the bureau. You put them on the defense, not you you’re not on the yacht, you’re not on defense they are. So you take a defense, you take an offensive posture and you make them defend what they’re saying. And in that process, Jason, it comes off your credit report. Many, many times that admitting, you know, it’s almost like being on a stand and the judge says, Did you shoot him with a 38 caliber? And you say no, you’re on it was a 45. You’re not going to volunteer that information.
Jason Hartman 57:12
Okay. But But I want to understand the basic premise here. What you’re saying is you dispute an item with the credit bureau, and then is there the creditor has a certain amount of time to respond is that it and a lot of times, they don’t respond,
Steve Paige 57:25
they’ve got about 30 days to respond. And in that 30 day period, and that’s sometimes as interpreted as working days, so it could be 45 days, and they have that much time and they contract this stuff. 60 minutes did an article or did an expo say, two three months ago really good. If anybody wants to see it, YouTube it 60 minutes, credit bureaus or credit reports. They outsource this information to Philippines, India, and Chile and South America. And consumers will get the reports they’ll write letters, questioning the things on their file. Then it goes to one of the sources who sends it to the creditor. And here’s the thing is it’s supposed to a two digit number. So the law says that they’re supposed to forward everything if you were the victim of identity theft or something, or it was, and it was on your report, and you had all the documentation to prove it and you sent it to the credit bureau. They’re supposed to forward all of your things at intact to the creditor. They don’t they, they can, can they condense it, they toss it on what they do with it, crush it, destroy it, shred it, and they condense it to what they interpret one of possible 32 digit codes that represents what you’re trying to say to the creditor that’s in complete violation of it. You can watch that 60 minutes and you’ll have attorney after attorney after attorney in on TV say over and over again. They are violating 100% of the time to Fair Credit Reporting Act because they are not forwarding all of your data to prove your point. To the credit bureau, in a perfect world, that’s how it should be done in reality, it doesn’t work that way. And so there’s so many different things to answer that question. So you get your credit report. When you question it. And you forward it, it’s processes they’re supposed to send it to the creditor. The creditor has so many days to get back to the consumer and tells them now there’s another interesting thing. What happens if they can’t verify it and they delete it? Can they put it back on there? That’s always a question they asked me and they can they do but they got to give you five days notice under public on a one dash five wait to tell you or 15 minutes code 1681 they have to tell you before they put it on back on the credit report,
Jason Hartman 59:44
okay, so you can get something removed and then it goes back on,
Steve Paige 59:48
possibly that now it doesn’t happen the way we do it, but it is for all intensive purposes. They have the right they can happen but there are administrative process they have to obey before they put it Back on the file, I personally we haven’t had to deal with that. And what we do so I don’t even know the process of that. I’m just saying a in a careful reading of the FCRA. They do have that right.
Jason Hartman 1:00:10
So anything else someone should know about improving their credit score?
Steve Paige 1:00:15
Yeah, understand getting a source of the score the best the only source in the galaxy in the universe for a consumer to get a real credit score is through a company called my fika. Calm, I don’t work for him, I get no commission from nothing. But that’s the only source a consumer can go to any of these free credit score.com annual credit report.com you can get a credit report at every one of these places, and they’ll be consistent. If you ask for the score, you’re going to be in the land of confusion, because the only place to get the real scores is my fika calm, there’s no second place. There’s no second best. There’s no other place who and you get an in a consumer can get it free for 10 days if they go there and ask for one One of the three FICO scores. But that’s it. There is no they have such a hold on it. This company made 100 billion dollars in the first quarter, hundred billion dollar profit. They’re huge. So Phyto has turned into a huge company globally.
Jason Hartman 1:01:17
So is it used around the world? I mean, I thought most countries don’t have credit reports. I thought that was kind of a thing that was unique to the US.
Steve Paige 1:01:25
No, no, in fact, Italy to me i’ve i’ve as my studies Italy has has has taken the very best of what we do. England copied what we do in Japan, Germany, France, Canada, and Canada has been interesting laws. We have the Fair Credit Reporting Act in this nation to protect us. Canada has a separate set of issues, the Ministry of credit, and a few different ministries that they refer to up there to be able to get to the report, but every country uses credit scores. Some are not relied upon their South American countries or the corruption and things like Lot of them, they don’t rely on the scores. Because of the information they get. They don’t know where the source of where it’s coming from is as reliable. But in every every major power uses a credit system and credit reports. And it’s a little newer to them than it is to us. Ours have been around almost 100 years. In fact, this country of Portugal, consumer can opt out of the entire system, you can actually in Portugal, request to be off the grid. You don’t even show up on a credit system. No.
Jason Hartman 1:02:28
Good, interesting, good points. Well, if you’re interested in hearing more about Steve services, you can contact your investment counselor through Jason Hartman calm and we can put you in touch and you can learn more. But Steve, just anything real quickly in closing,
Steve Paige 1:02:44
just make it that everyone should be able to make an effort to not be intimidated to contact through you and get a copy of their credit report and will help anybody that wants to understand and how to read these things.
Jason Hartman 1:02:57
Good stuff. Well, thank you for sharing this advice today.
Steve Paige 1:03:00
Steve Paige 1:03:06
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