Patrick Donohoe author Heads I Win Tails You Lose

Patrick Donohoe author Heads I Win Tails You Lose

Jason Hartman speaks with author of, “Heads I Win Tails You Lose,” Patrick Donohoe. They discusses a range of topics including- changing world culture that continues to reshape how we approach wealth, the freedom to do, and in what we find meaning. Despite some of the chaos and cultural decay, the 2020’s are going to bring some excitement to the world.

Announcer 0:00
Well, I like real estate just because I like the benefit of being able to have a mortgage pay off real estate over time so that when I retire, I have something I like the fact that it’s boring. I want to be able to be entertained and travel and do a lot of things in my retirement. And that boring investment of real estate allows me to do that.

Announcer 0:24
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will have Help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. Here’s your host Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 1:15
Welcome to Episode 1372 1372 and I am coming to you from the high seas. Yes, we just left NASA and half moon cay. I don’t know if you can hear this or not my microphones pretty good but I’m out on the deck of the cruise ship and it is windy. And we are steaming through waves and you can probably hear the ocean back there but I’m gonna go inside looking out at a sky with stars got the room lights on so not seeing enough stars because my eyes haven’t adjusted anyway. Heading back inside now just had to give you a taste of what it’s like after leaving Florida leaving the port of Portland. Dale port Everglades. It’s just absolutely stunning with this beautiful warm air. And it’s so fresh and nice and really good. Anyway, I’m on a cruise here this week with a bunch of entrepreneurs are headed toward grand Turk going to add a few countries to my country list. I’m an 84. So far tomorrow, that will be my 85th country. And then I’ll hit 86 after this. So that’s exciting. A lot of times traveling to these places, going over and over to the same place. I don’t add to the country count. There is a website for the centurion club, where you visited 100 countries or more, so gotta get in there. Get in, get in the century club for country visits. Anyway. Hey, Today we’ve got a great show. Our friend Pat Donahoe, who’s been on the show before is with me and we just discuss a whole bunch of things. It’s kind of a download on the economy, housing the future, a lot of future is topics and hey, As Yogi Berra said, the future ain’t what it used to be. No, it certainly isn’t. It’s an amazing time to be alive. It really is. As far as technology goes, You know that I am bullish on technology and the future, but I am bearish on culture and the culture war. We’ll see how it all pans out. It’s always a pendulum. Everything goes back and forth, the pendulum goes back and forth. It sways from one direction to the other over time, this will be no exception. So it’ll be interesting to see what the future holds. And we’ll talk about that a little bit today on today’s episode, but I gotta tell you something, just read an article about how the global debt to GDP ratio is at an all time record high. And what was my first thought when reading that article? Hopefully, it was the same thought you had, because the thought should always be is that in real dollars while its measured in US dollars, sure, but every country’s currency needs to be converted, whatever you get the idea, right? The global GDP, how much is that? somewhere in the neighborhood of $80 trillion. So in other words, every year, it’s like your income, look at it as though it’s your household income. If your household income is just for round numbers, $100,000 per year, then that is your household GDP, right? That’s your GDP. That’s your gross domestic product, essentially. And if your debt is $300,000, then your debt to GDP ratio is what? It’s three to one, right? You’ve got three times the amount of debt to what you earn every year. And if you have that much debt, would you think that’s good or bad? Would you have too much debt? That’s a good question. It depends what type of debt It is if it’s mortgage debt. And I’m not even talking about mortgage debt on income properties, which is the best type of debt, because income property is the most debt favored asset class. It gives you that wonderful, beautiful self liquidating debt. It gives you inflation and do step destruction. It gives you leverage. It is beautiful. It’s absolutely beautiful. It’s wonderful type of debt. But even if it wasn’t that wonderful type of debt, say it’s just a mortgage on a home, a home in which you live, you earn $100,000 a year and you have a mortgage of $300,000. Is that bad? Well, I would say no, it’s not that out of whack. Well, the global debt to GDP ratio at its all time high is now 300. 22% there’s a lot of talk about debt and how the world is too in debt. The country is too in debt. Every country is too in debt, not just sort of referring to the US but in the developed world. Nobody has more extreme debt to GDP ratio than Japan. Okay, now I’m sure many smaller countries do but but for for a big economy, Japan is really, really lopsided, right? Of course, we’re in uncharted territory with his debt issue. But when you compare it to the death of a person of an individual or a household, I’m not sure it’s really that bad. But, oddly, I want it to be that bad. And now you new listeners are saying, this guy’s nuts. I gotta turn him off or I gotta listen to him just because I’m curious as to how nuts he is. Well, no, I’m not nuts. Why do I want it to be bad? If it’s bad, that means in inflationary future. And what does that mean for us as income property investors in inflationary future is a wonderful thing. We love inflation, right? It’s great. It’s philosophically bad. It’s bad for most people. But it’s good for us. Because we have done not necessarily the right thing. Right in air quotes, as I say, the right thing. We’ve done the smart thing. We’ve done the prudent thing. We’ve aligned our interests with the most powerful forces the human race has ever known after God, okay. God is the most powerful force the human race has ever known. And now I hear the atheist crying. Well, I do believe in God. Okay, whatever. Do you believe in natural disasters? Do you believe in Mother Nature? Do you believe in father time? Okay, well, fine. then substitute that for God, okay, fine, fine, fine. Whatever you get the idea, these big powerful things right after those powerful things, the two most powerful forces after that two most powerful human made forces, our governments and central banks, and we align our interest with those most powerful man made forces governments and central banks and look very irresponsible. They spend money like drunken sailors I love Ronald Reagan said, he said to say that the government spends money like drunken sailors is an insult to drunken sailors. Because the drunken sailors aren’t as bad as the government. But you know, when you really look at the numbers and you compare it with a household or an individual, I’m not I’m not so sure the debt problem, whether it be at the national level, the global level, I’m not really sure it’s that extremely bad. I don’t know. Maybe it is, of course, sovereign debt is different than individual debt and household debt. Yes, that’s true. And governments need to spend in invest in a more prudent way than maybe individuals do. But this is something honestly I struggle with, and I struggle with how to articulate it to you, our listeners. So I would love to get your feedback on this. I really would, because, honestly, I’m not so sure that the debt problem is as bad as everybody makes it out to be. Of course, there’s the gold bugs and the doom and gloom errs and the cryptocurrency nuts and all this stuff out there saying Oh, buy gold, buy bitcoin, because it’s all going to crash. The sky is falling. Okay. Howard rough who’s been on the show, Peter Schiff. Who’s been on the show? Jim Rogers, who’s been on the show three times. And Jim Rogers, I really don’t mean to even put him in the same class as those other two guys. You know, but but all these Chicken Little The sky is falling people, right? Which Listen, I’m not saying they’re dumb, they’re very smart people. You can sell a lot more books and get a lot more attention by talking about the collapse, the up and coming collapse, right. You know, is the collapse ever going to happen? I don’t know. They’ve been saying this for literally centuries, starting with mouth who’s okay the mail Susie and idea was, what, 200 years ago or something like that, right? The idea that resources are scarce and we’re going to run out of resources and there’s overpopulation. Forgive me if I forget the era in which Malthus lived, I don’t know it was at least 100 years ago, it was more than 100 years ago, right. Maybe it was 200. I don’t know. I can Can’t remember. But the point is, people have been preaching, the sky is falling pretty much forever. And if you look at all these religious sects and religious cults, they’ve been preaching it for a long time, too. And no, I’m not just talking about the branch davidians, or the people with the purple jumpsuits and the Nike shoes, right? I’m not talking about just that, or Jim Jones and the Diana massacre, or any of that stuff. I’m talking hundreds of years ago, this stuff was going on just you know, look at history. I don’t know, what do you think about the debt to GDP ratio? At the level of your country? I mean, we’ve got listeners in 199 countries. So what do you think about it at the level of your country? What do you think about it at the United States level, the largest economy in the world? And what do you think about it? at a global level, the debt to GDP ratio is the highest ever 322% debt to GDP ratio? Is that really as bad as it sounds good Jason hartman.com slash ask and give us your thoughts. Jason Hartman. com slash ask a SK and tell us what you think we’d love to hear from you. Ask a question. Make a comment, express your opinion. We’d love to hear from you. Jason Hartman comm slash ask. Without further ado, let’s get to our guest today, as Pat and I will talk about how it is an amazing time to be alive. It’s great pleasure to have Patrick Donahoe back on the show. He is the author of the fantastic book heads, I win, Tails, you lose a financial strategy to reignite the American dream. And of course, he is founder and CEO of paradigm life. And he is a thinker and intellectual, a financial genius and a great entrepreneur. Pat, it’s great to have you back on the show. Welcome back.

Patrick Donohoe 12:51
Hey, Jason, thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Jason Hartman 12:53
Good to have you for sure. So, this time of year, as we were talking, we had, you know, we don’t live near You’re each other, you’re in Salt Lake City, I’m in Palm Beach, Florida. So we had an hour and 20 minute video meeting recently. And that was really nice to really do that sort of formally, almost like we’re getting together and, you know, sitting across the dinner table or something. And we just talked about a whole variety issues. Of course, this time of year, everybody’s thinking about well, reflecting on the past decade, reflecting on the past year, and then looking forward to this year, in this new decade. We’re in. Many have talked about the fourth turning lately, you know, that book that was written a while back, I never got my head around that one too much. But, you know, what do you think what are your thoughts about where we’ve been and where we’re going?

Patrick Donohoe 13:43
Well, jeez, I don’t know if you remember our first conversation in Dallas. It was at a syndication event. And we had spoken before we had never met each other face to face but we had dinner and it was part of this event, but we talked for a couple hours on a lot of the same topics as the other day or We were on the phone. And listen, my perspective hasn’t

Jason Hartman 14:02
really changed much. And that’s where I think we hit it off. Because, you know, you go into Zero Hedge or drudge or look at the traditional media. And it’s like, you know, the world’s falling apart. sky is falling. Yeah. And I think there’s definitely truth to that. Yeah. But if you look, in the past, or throughout history, there’s always been indications of, you know, turmoil, whether its financial, social, or otherwise. And I think that perspective is always going to be there. I think we’re humans, you know, we are erratic or irrational. And if you want to look for turmoil and chaos and crisis, you’re always going to find it and at the same time, I love thinkers that are optimistic about about the future. I mean, 2019 was It concluded a decade, you know, it bridged into the 2020s. And there’s a lot of really interesting things going on, and I’m always trying to find the optimism that is there and it’s in spades. And so I really our conversation, then, you know went into, you know, the impact that AI is going to have on the world the impact that globalization is going to have in a positive light. And despite some of the chaos that’s going on, I’m really excited about what the 2020s are going to are going to bring. You know, I couldn’t agree with you more, as I always say, it’s an amazing time to be alive. And I mean, that mostly about kind of the world in general, I’m pretty negative on the culture, I think that the culture has decayed a lot. I just experienced that I met with Mitch Russo. And we had kind of an early dinner just now he’s the author of a couple of books, which I know you’re a fan of niches. Some work, definitely. I was saying that to him. And, you know, it’s sort of a reflection to some extent of how easy it is to get by, which is a sign that life is pretty good. Now that’s not necessarily good for human motivation, right? Because When it’s easy, we sort of get soft and still old to apathy a little bit, right? But there are so many revolutions that we are really on the brink of. And I don’t know that that’s ever been this significant in history. In fact, I’m almost sure it is never the you know, like I would say, you know, when the steam engine came out, they thought that was the biggest thing ever, right. And so we always tend to think that with whatever technology is available at the time, but right now, as you mentioned, we’ve got artificial intelligence. We’ve got the sharing economy. We’ve got this global mind of billions and billions of people is finally being meshed together, where we’re seeing the massive, incredible sharing of ideas. You know, when you spoke at one of our events, you talked about one of the things that really led the Enlightenment hundreds of years ago and that was coffee shop.

Patrick Donohoe 17:00
Right now where people could get together and share ideas, and coffee shops for a big deal in the building of civilization. Now we have social media, okay. And I can’t believe how much I learn every day, just by looking at my social media feeds from my brilliant friends, in reading the articles. They’re like my clipping service, they click the articles for me, and tell me what to pay attention to. It’s really incredible biotech, nanotechnology, you know, commercialization of space, quantum computing, DNA storage for memory, and then also for batteries. There are just so many incredible things that we’re on the verge of, I just can’t imagine that it’s not going to lead to massive amount of lifestyle improvement. It’s going to but you hit on something, Jason that I find really interesting. And it’s one of those things where you can’t necessarily predict what’s going to happen but you have these forces of human nature that compel us to do things. And there’s a force that compels us to not work. But then there’s a force that compels us to work. And I think the differentiator is survival is having to do it in a lot of cases. But ultimately, you we don’t have to do much in the United States to survive anymore. And I believe that technology is making it. So things are going to get cheaper, you’re going to have way more options. And the options you will have will allow you to live a lifestyle that would be the envy of Kings of hundreds of years ago, of course, maybe even 100 years ago, even 100 years

Jason Hartman 18:35
ago, you know, one of the venture Alliance trips and I don’t know where if you were on that trip, forgive me. I can’t remember. We went to Newport, Rhode Island, and we saw the mansions were you there? No, I wasn’t

Patrick Donohoe 18:46
here before I started going with you. Yep, it was before you joined. Okay. And that’s where I grew up. So I know that place I know that place really well. Oh, oh, you’re a rich kid. Huh?

Jason Hartman 18:53
Wow.

Patrick Donohoe 18:55
I grew up in Connecticut, but my parents live in in on Cape Cod. We would drive Rhode Island. That’s one of the routes you can take. And so I’m familiar with the area.

Jason Hartman 19:04
And one of our venture Alliance mastermind members just pointed out, he said, you look at these people who were the industrialist who basically owned the world, you know, the Rockefellers, the Carnegie’s the melons, the vanderbilts, right? All of these in their amazing mansions. But today, we have far more conveniences than they did. And if you’re poor in America, the conveniences you have are better than the conveniences they have, in many ways, not in all ways, of course, but technology just really opens the world to people. It makes it very accessible. And I know you follow Peter Diamandis, like I do. And, you know, he talks about that quite a bit. And the point I was making with that is, you’re going to have a point in time where the motivation of individuals as an aggregate, if it doesn’t change to Purpose Driven, mission driven and mission driven lifestyle instead of survival, then it’s gonna be a rough road for people. Right? Because the purpose has changed. As far as work is concerned, that was a big theme in the book that I wrote is, you know, people didn’t come to the US, you know, or come to this new world. You know, we’re celebrating the 400th year of the pilgrims landing in in Plymouth. They didn’t come here to retire, right? They didn’t come here, to seek just where things would be provided for them where they wouldn’t have to work. The intention was fascinating where they came here to be free. And I believe that that is really what the American Dream is, is, is freedom. But it’s not freedom from having to do something, right. It’s freedom to do something. And it’s freedom to do something that I think is meaningful. And I believe that when that becomes the motivation of people, then life takes on new meaning. It takes on new tasks, new drive, new motivation, and I believe that the retirement generation right now what you’re seeing their lifestyle is actually going down. If you analyze, you know, they’re the data associated with their health, because there’s no longer purpose, right? The purpose is, you know, playing golf or tennis or pickleball. Now, and it’s not driven to benefit other people. And so I look at, you know, just the notion of financial services and the purpose it plays, I believe there’s going to be lots of revolution there with this bridging of the gap. I think that, you know, Millennials are also the younger generation, right, their motivations are more lifestyle driven, and purpose driven and mission driven, if you really boil some of it down. And I believe that as money is changed from the baby boomer generation, as it, you know, transfers to this younger generation, you’re going to see allocation, you know, into a lot of different areas and sectors that are going to make others obsolete. But I think it’s a really interesting time in history where over the next even five years, there’s just going to be massive change. It’s like, it’s all come to this precipice and it’s compounded and now we’re We’re going to start to see the reality of so much work and so much momentum has been building up over the last couple decades. It’s an order of magnitude. It’s the hockey stick on the graph, right? If you look at a graph and you see that hockey stick when things just go up exponentially, that’s where we probably are. Of course, the things I did not mention a moment ago, I did not mention 3d printing, blockchain and cryptocurrencies. And as you all know, I’m not a big cryptocurrency fan, but there will be cryptocurrency I just think the ones that will win will be sponsored by governments and central banks, and represent and in literally the same thing, and in many ways, they’re going to use that to control the populations of course, and we’re not going to have the kind of financial privacy we had before, however, and then and then that’s bad, right? I don’t like that. However, there will be some real benefits because money in the ability to use it. The convenience of using it and the innovations in it. There is real technology behind it and that’s going to make our lives better in many ways. You look at what’s going on in China. Stansbury just came out with a documentary that’s didn’t get very good ratings. But anyway, you know, I watched it and it was all about China and, and they told you a lot of stuff, but they kind of didn’t tell you a lot of stuff. Also, it’s hosted by Steve sugar rude. And he’s been on the show before and he’s really, really bright guy, really interesting guy. And you just look at the kind of innovation that they’re having with their currency. Almost nobody uses cash there. And there is some real benefit to that. Of course, autonomous everything, not just cars, but airplanes, shuttle helicopters that are ride sharing vehicles, you can just summon space travel material science. There are all these revolution. They talk about the rising billion, but it’s really the rising 3 billion. I mean, if you think society has benefited from sharing knowledge in collaboration so far, you’re absolutely right. It’s been incredible. The ability to have people map the human genome, and gamify that on the internet where people are doing it for fun when people are using those CAPTCHA things, when we, you know, sign into a computer sign into a website and verifies you’re not a robot. Many times those are for a huge purpose. You’re actually reading address numbers and helping map the world or index the

Patrick Donohoe 24:43
world. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 24:44
yeah. Or or you’re helping read books. You know, there’s, there’s all kinds of amazing things we don’t even know. And so now we see 3 billion more people that aren’t online yet, or at least not in any significant way. Not yet. They have all sorts of knowledge to share and benefit from. And that just grows the economy. It just grows the economy. Well, Jason,

Patrick Donohoe 25:09
you also look at they’re not just doing it in the I’m still speaking about China, it has gone outside of the borders, right? They they’re the biggest investor in Africa. And Africa, you know, has some of the highest growth of millionaires and billionaires based on being able to provide some infrastructure, financial support direction, technology, which is, you know, Africa is just this up and coming population. It’s, it’s massive. You know, I heard a statistic a couple years ago that there are more people in Africa under the age of 30, than the entire population of the United States. And so you, you look at again, there’s so much equity or, or capacity within other countries, emerging markets when it comes to them, desiring the lifestyle that Americans have spearheaded, and and I believe that you know, it’s going to happen rather When there’s connection that takes place now you’re going to have this very integrated connected world economy and you know, language and the ability to have translation at speeds that are just unfathomable. It’s gonna be really exciting. And there’s gonna be lots of opportunity, there’s gonna be disruption to, I mean, with all the things you just mentioned, it things become obsolete, financial systems become obsolete, and you’re starting to see signs of that already with the US financial system and how that’s, you know, impacted other parts of the world, then they’re going to get sick of it, and developing their own type of structure. But I don’t know it’s exciting because you’re all with disruption, there’s always going to be something that is negative that comes out of it at the same time will always be winners and losers. I believe there’s always gonna be an outweighing of that based on what is positive that comes out of it.

Jason Hartman 26:44
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And just a little aside to something you just mentioned, you basically talked about how language is becoming transparent, and that actually already exist. You know, you can buy basically AirPods if you Will that go in your ear? their wireless, one goes in your ear, the other goes in the ear of the other speaker, and it will translate your languages on the fly. That is I now I’m sure it doesn’t work great yet. Okay. Otherwise everybody wouldn’t again, that was my point. A lot of it exists just it just needs to be improved. Yeah, yeah. And but it will improve massively. And with AI and quantum computing, knocking on the door, of course, that’s going to happen. It’s right around the corner. And so I would say that look, it’s always impressive. You know, my girlfriend, for example, speaks four languages, okay. And of course, you know, Carmen, that’s always impressive. But one thing people forget to ask is about how you can hear the dogs that don’t bark. Right? You know, in other words, if you didn’t spend the time learning languages, you could have spent the time learning something else. Right. And you know, she did that, wouldn’t you? was much younger, so you couldn’t have them. Right, it wouldn’t have mattered then it seemed like language was definitely the thing you want to learn. But now like today, I would argue that learning a language may not be, besides your own, may not be as valuable as you think it is going forward, because that’s going to become transparent through technology. It’s not to destroy I totally agree. Yeah. So so you know, maybe you could learn a whole new science or physics or engineering or programming or something else, instead, because the language will become more and more transparent as time goes on. For sure. Well, Jason, so

Patrick Donohoe 28:37
this is interesting. So I heard of the slogan, I think it’s the Ritz Carlton slogan. If you ever come across that before, I do

Jason Hartman 28:45
not know what the Ritz Carlton slogan is. I stayed at a Ritz Carlton recently. But

Patrick Donohoe 28:50
here’s the here’s the slogan, and I think it is perfectly

Jason Hartman 28:53
what it is. I know where you’re going. But I go ahead, go ahead. Okay. It’s it’s

Patrick Donohoe 28:56
systemize the predictable so you can humanize the exceptional.

Jason Hartman 29:00
Ah, that’s not the slogan. I was thinking of. I had another one for you. That’s That’s good.

Patrick Donohoe 29:05
What I will read your read yours.

Jason Hartman 29:07
Say it again? Yeah, say it again system existed systemize the predictable so that you can humanize the exception. Ah, that’s really good. So in other words, it lightens the burden on the humans to be available to make for other exceptional things, because the underlying stuff is all systematized. Right,

Patrick Donohoe 29:26
exactly. The point is, I think that this is within that slogan is where all the opportunity is. I think that the human experience and understanding what humans really want, there are some things that you know, humans do right now driving trucks, you have working in restaurants, fast food, restaurants, you you have positions, right and jobs and work that can be easily systematized. And so you can have a lot of displacement. There’s gonna be obsolescence and a lot of different businesses and industries at the same time. When there’s focus on what you know human beings really One and you can position whether it’s business or investment, or your your profession into that exceptional, there’s always going to be, I would say a demand for the human being. But as you said language, it’s one of those things where it’s going to be systematized communication is going to be systematized. So therefore the focus should be on something that’s going to be more, more human rights can be more exceptional, because I think that’s where what this slogan means is that, you know, humanizing the exceptional as a human being is associated with the exceptional, and they’ve delegated the rest of their time and effort and energy to what they would normally have spent to what systematize. That makes sense.

Jason Hartman 30:38
Yeah, it absolutely makes sense. And just for the listeners, the the slogan I was thinking of, which is probably one that they abandon a while ago, because, listen, I’m bearish on culture. I think our culture kind of stinks, right. And it’s become so casual and I always say To the listeners, watch old movies and watch old TV shows. You know, you kind of see how far the world has fallen in many ways. I mean, people were so polite and proper, I get that it’s just a movie or a TV show. I know, it’s not exactly real life, but it’s a representation, you know, they got it from somewhere reflects something of the era, right? Anyway, the Ritz Carlton saying that I remember is, you know, in other words, a supervisor speaking to the staff would say, we are Ladies and gentlemen, serving Ladies and gentlemen, right now, imagine that nowadays, right?

Patrick Donohoe 31:38
Jason, it’s it you know, it’s interesting, there is a there’s an article that really impacted me a couple months ago, and it talked about the, the declining life expectancies, especially with those that are kind of in their their prime of life between 25 and 50. And it was because of, you know, suicide, prescription drug use drug abuse. of obesity

Jason Hartman 32:00
brown

Patrick Donohoe 32:00
city. Yeah, I look at all the different events we have. And this is where I see that the trend is like people, you know, people are seeking meaning before having to survive working 12 hours and 14 hours a day.

Jason Hartman 32:15
hours a day. Yeah,

Patrick Donohoe 32:15
yeah, yeah. And not having as much entertainment like today, there’s more to do than we could in a lifetime, right in one day. And it’s one of those are the information that can be consumed. So people I think, are, they’re not driven by necessity anymore, but yet, they’re still living like that, and trying to find meaning and in other things, right, whether it’s drugs, or whether it’s a food, they’re trying to escape the reality that, you know, meaning is missing. And I think that’s where, you know, it’s a part of the progression when it comes to having a population of culture that is principal and values based, because I think that it always comes back to that equilibrium. If you look at look at history, and I think it’s going to go I think it’s going to go there and the indication right now is that people are They’re not fulfilled life is the meaning for them is very fleeting and superficial. And I believe that that is it’s going to change as we continue to have more and more choices, more and more technology and are not having to do as much as we have to do right now. Yeah, a little bit of struggle is good for the human spirit. And I would advise people to intentionally create some struggle for themselves. Don’t go Don’t go overboard on that idea, folks, what’s the nature of growth? Yeah, right to grow and be better and do more and contribute more. I think if that becomes the driving force, there’s going to be in an infinite amount of possibility to, you know, to make a difference and that right there gives you know, a sense of fulfillment that, you know, keeps people going for a really long time.

Jason Hartman 33:48
muscles grow by resistance. gems are polished by friction. Steel is hardened by fire. Absolutely. Some struggle is good for all of us. It definitely is and the You know, to the parents out there, don’t spoil your kids, you know, ruin them. Okay? Give them the same gift, you got a little bit of struggle which made you the person you are.

Patrick Donohoe 34:09
Okay. And like you said, Jason is controlled and intentional struggle with it, instead of it happening to you.

Jason Hartman 34:15
Yeah, this escapism, it’s not necessarily exactly escapism, there’s that. But there’s also just sort of this filling a void kind of issue going on in the culture, and it’s always existed for sure, this is not a new idea, okay. But it does seem like it’s more of an issue, as life gets, in many ways easier and easier. And there’s a name for it actually, the concept of where we all sort of have this inkling feeling that gnaws at us that we’re not doing as much as we could or should be doing right that it’s being a little too apathetic. It’s too easy to get by. It’s called pana phobia. Okay. You can’t escape panic phobia. Okay? You know, so the only way to solve that panic phobia problem is to jump in and take life on with gusto and get engaged in some causes. Create your own challenges and create your own meaning.

Patrick Donohoe 35:18
Amen to that, Jason. Yeah. Thank you have a future as a preacher, Pastor,

Jason Hartman 35:22
Pastor Jason Hartman, there you go. Absolutely. Sounds good to me. He, we didn’t get a chance to talk about the economy Pat, and I really would like to have you back to talk about interest rates, commodities prices, the housing market, the financial markets, etc. So let’s do that real soon. But thanks for joining us today. give out your website or any information you want. Of course, the book is available in all the usual places

Patrick Donohoe 35:51
on the books website is where you can it’s kind of the connecting piece to everything else that I’m involved with. So it’s heads or tails. I win calm

Jason Hartman 35:59
heads or Tales I win calm. Right, right. Okay, that’s it. Fantastic. Patrick, thanks for joining us.

Patrick Donohoe 36:06
Thank you, Jason.

Jason Hartman 36:07
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