Aaron Kopelson discusses employment, housing, and the stock market during the pandemic

Aaron Kopelson discusses employment, housing, and the stock market during the pandemic

Jason takes a look at if the US economy has recovered. Despite terrible unemployment numbers there’s been a stock market rally and the housing market is booming. Banks are concerned which is leading to tightening in lending and getting a mortgage has completely changed. Jason discusses all this and more with his guest, Aaron Kopelson.

Aaron Kopelson 0:02
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 0:53
Welcome to Episode 1475 1475. We are going to have one of our one for clients on the show today, also, of course, a listener to the podcast, but also, he happens to be a mortgage lender, and that’ll be Aaron Colson. He has been on the show before a while back talking about his client case study. But today he’s going to talk about the mortgage market. We’re not going to talk about his client case study about the mortgage market today. And Aaron is just a really bright guy, and has a lot of good insights here. So I think you’ll you’ll be interested in this. This is a couple of weeks old, but it hasn’t changed much. You know, it’s sort of odd things are changing fast. But some things are more like macro principles, or directional trends, or dare I say it vibes. You know, someone said to me, I was on a conference call today, and a friend of mine who’s a mom, I think she got this one from her kids. She says to me Get while you’re laying down. Funny is saying, Do you get what I’m laying down here? I get it. Okay. And there you go. So anyway, we’ll jump into that with Aaron here in a few minutes. But Wow. Now listen, I do not want to imply for even a New York minute that the economy is in good shape.

Aaron Kopelson 2:24
But, but but but but but

Jason Hartman 2:27
what is going on here? I mean, has the recovery already occurred? You gotta be kidding me. I mean even I don’t think so. And you know, I want to think I’m sort of naturally optimistic, but at the same time, I am a sarcastic complainer, as you will know. Okay, but look, the stock market has had the greatest 50 day rally in the history of the s&p. The last 50 days have been absolutely spectacular.

Jason Hartman 3:01
And the jobless rate is insanely terrible. And the housing market now the housing market, it’s, you know, it’s a little bit of a slower moving beast. But all indications over just a very small sample, I will be the first to admit the sample is tiny. But the housing market is frickin booming. We have bidding wars in many cities, we have inventory tightening, well, a tightening inventory was already in short supply. So nothing new there. I mean, this is either the biggest disconnect in the history of the universe, or it’s the largest pump up of governments and central banks in the history of the world. Or maybe things really are recovering. Or maybe there’s just a lot of money sloshing around out there in the world. It’s got to find somewhere to go. I don’t know. But I do know this. This I know for sure. I know that the cyclical real estate markets will ultimately suffer. The linear markets will ultimately boom, they’re already booming but in the middle of this pandemic, and we’ve got civil unrest, not dimension terrible, ugly, civil unrest, it’s just tragic. What you see going on on the news, it really is. It’s It’s insane. And let’s just hope that this be not this but these cops that endorse brutality, witness brutality, and the one the one really bad guy that actually committed the brutality. Let’s hope that they just get sentenced to the maximum possible extent of the law. Because you know me I don’t like bullies and someone who uses Their power and abuses their power is automatically a bully. It’s not the typical definition of a bully, you know, on the street. But that’s, that’s a bully, you know, people we entrust to we give the government a monopoly on violence, as iron Rand puts it, and when it is abused, it is just so tragic. I mean, you know, it’s bad enough to see some thug abuse, someone take advantage of them. But when you see a cop do it, that’s just really bad. And one of the most encouraging things we see is we see other good police officers standing up against this kind of stuff. Because it makes their job harder. It makes their life harder. And we can’t paint with a broad brush on this kind of stuff. Because if we do, then, hey, you know, when you need that police officer to protect you, well, you know, they’re gonna think twice do I really want to risk My career, my life, my freedom. It’s a fine line, you know, hey look, it’s the thin blue line, the thin blue line. That’s what they call it, the thin blue line. It’s just tragic when you see a few bad apples, ruin it for the rest of them. But it is what it is and like everything else, we will get through it. And I will be here to guide you through all this craziness. But Wow, the economy is coming back with a boom I don’t think it’s gonna last but like I said, as I started to say I get off on tangents, you know, me this. I do know, even if the economy lapses back into disaster and you know, you could easily argue that it is in disaster now even though the stock market is booming and the housing market is taken off with a vengeance with a roar. We had a short hibernation, but you know, out of the hibernation, the bear wakes up with our roar. He my dog even looked at me when I did that. She thought What’s going on here? You’re really Batter being a bear. Jason Okay, well, I’m a bull, then. Not a bear. But yeah, bears hibernate, you know, and, and they wake up and they wake up with a yawn or a roar, and maybe this economy is waking up with a roar, even with this massive unemployment. And that’s got to be fixed. But I don’t listen, I don’t think this has any permanent recovery. Okay, just let me go on record with that. I think this is even more of the continuing illusion that the entire global economy is built on. It’s all a game of smoke and mirrors every country on Earth, right, the whole thing. So the only thing you can ask is compared to what and compared to what says the US economy is in dramatically better shape than the rest of the world economy because of its various advantages. Okay. And we won’t go into what those are today. But this I do know that even if the economy lapses back into disaster, maybe It already is in disaster. I don’t know. We’ve got these other indicators say different, but we’ll see we’ll see. It doesn’t really matter because number one thing is people are out buying houses because now they realize the home is the center of the universe and they want to reposition themselves to be in a better home. In case there’s a big return of this in the fall, or maybe there’s another pandemic or who knows what or there’s civil unrest I mean, if there ever was a reason in history to get out of a city and move to the burbs, and I’ve been predicting the rise of the burbs the suburbs, suburbia since 2012, the resurgence of the suburbs since 2012. I’ve been predicting that now you’ve not only got social distancing, for disease reasons, but you’ve also got social distancing for violence reasons, two reasons to be in the suburbs for greater Safety. So yeah, it’s crazy what’s going on in the world. But those two reasons, the mass migration, the the massive movement of America, that is already happening, but you ain’t seen nothing yet. As the old saying goes, it is going to be huge. This is a tidal wave, get yourself in front of it, position, your assets. That’s what we’re here to help you do. We’re here to guide you through that. And to make that transition as easy as possible for you, and make sure that you win in these uncertain times. And by the way, we do not have the registration page up yet, but save the date. Mark your calendar, because we have our first and I think it’s going to be pretty awesome. Meet the masters of income property event, virtual style, coming up on July 10 11th, and 12th. So it’ll be Friday evening. There’ll be a welcome reception cocktails, but you got to bring your own. This is BYOB because, hey, we can’t pass a cocktail to you through the screen.

Jason Hartman 10:11
You got to bring your own for this. But we’re gonna have some fun with it and I think it’ll be good. And we’ll have a little content on Friday evening, a little networking, little stuff like that. And then Saturday and Sunday, we’ve got our General Sessions. And those are slated for 11am to 4pm. Eastern time. So you folks, it’s hard to do a virtual thing because we’re not all in the same timezone. But you folks in the Pacific, you got to get up with your cup of coffee and be ready and bright eyed bushy tailed at 8am. You folks on the east coast. Hey, you know, you’ll just be finishing up brunch and we’ll start at 11am for you. But anyway, yeah, 11 to four Saturday and Sunday, the 11th and 12th of July. And remember what July is, that is financial freedom month. Remember last year, we announced that This is kind of perfect for meet the masters. So it’ll be a lot of fun. We will have a registration page for you soon for that. But without further ado, let’s get to our guest. Let’s talk to our client show listener and very astute mortgage lender. Aaron Colson, here we go. It’s my pleasure to welcome Aaron Colson back to the show he was on before speaking as a client, doing a client case study but he also happens to be a very successful mortgage person. So I asked him to come on and update us on the mortgage market. There’s a lot going on out there. Obviously a lot of news, a lot of changes. Banks are worried and they’re reining in their horns. They’re tightening up a little bit. So what are some of these changes? What can we expect? And how does it all mesh together for us, Aaron, welcome back. How are you? Very good. Thanks for having It’s good to have you back on last time you want, as I mentioned, you were talking as a client, but you’re also in the business. And we wanted to get an update. So we really appreciate you coming on and talking about this. You’ve got a list of bullet points here, you sent me, take it away. Let’s dive in.

Aaron Kopelson 12:17
Okay, sounds good. You know, what we’re seeing, obviously, is a lot of changes going on industry wide. And there’s a lot of kind of mixed messages being sent out, I guess we can kind of start at that 30,000 foot view in terms of what’s going on and why all the chaos, so to speak. In essence, you know, we’re seeing lenders tighten up taking somewhat of a defensive posture. A lot of this is driven from the fact that lenders are, you know, the whole thing with forbearance is becoming more of an issue. And lenders don’t know, hey, if we make you a loan today, are you going to turn around and get into forbearance shortly thereafter, something what we call an industry would be either a first payment default or an early In default, in the industry, if you make a loan, and the consumer does not make the first payment, that loan is not deliverable, so you have a non saleable loan. And in essence, the lender would be stuck with the loan, it could make its way to let’s say, if it’s an agency product, Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, so

Jason Hartman 13:16
Amy and Freddie Mac act as the secondary market, and they buy the loans that you are funding, and you don’t want to be stuck with the loan on your portfolio, you want to sell it off so you can do more loans and make more money, right?

Aaron Kopelson 13:31
That’s right. And Fannie and Freddie are government sponsored enterprises, and they more or less set the policies, and they are ultimately the ones buying these and guaranteeing these loans. So, at the end of the day, the buck stops with Fannie and Freddie. Most of the lenders that are in the marketplace. The vast majority of them are originating loans, with the end goal of selling out loan and moving on And doing another loan. And that’s a direct lender or a mortgage banker, those terms are kind of synonymous. And so we don’t service loans, we just make loans and we turn around, and more or less rinse and repeat. Right?

Jason Hartman 14:12
Okay, good. The jumbo loan market now, first off, let’s define what a jumbo loan means. And there are different jumbo loan limits in different markets, right?

Aaron Kopelson 14:23
That’s right. So jumbo is synonymous with the word non conforming, depending on your area where you’re at in the country, the base layer is is 510,400. And if you happen to fall into a high cost cafe, those limits would exceed that like where I’m at in Orange County, California, it’s, it’s about 765,000. Generally, if you go $1 past that conforming loan limit and the area you’re in the county you’re in, it’s going to be a jumbo loan, meaning it can’t get delivered to Fannie or Freddie. And so those loans are made by lenders. And they will not sell them off to Fannie and Freddie and they will either put them on their balance sheet as we say they’re going to own those assets and service those loans. Up until recently, there were there were big players like Redwood trust and some of these other securitizers. That’s just a fancy term for packaging all the loans together and selling them off as bonds to investors. And that market is pretty much dried up, we were really not seeing any secondary market for those jumbo or those non conforming products. And another kind of variation of that that’s kind of in the same bucket, if you will, in terms of there’s no real market going on is what we call the non qm market. Now, qm stands for qualified mortgage. So a traditional loan, such as an agency product of Fannie or Freddie product, would be a qualified mortgage, it’s going to have safe harbor. And so that’s the majority of the loans being made. When you think of non qm, probably the easiest way to think about it would be a bank statement loan. So if you have a self employed borrower Who has a lot of write offs, and they could prove to the lender that they have sufficient cash flow to to repay the loan, that would be an example of a non qm loan product. And we’ve just kind of seen those disappear, which is very much reminiscent of, Oh, 708. You know, when the Great Recession when we just saw loans, everything kind of dried up overnight. And this feels very, very similar. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 16:24
And so what that means is that there’s no appetite from investors that want to buy mortgage backed securities for these non qm loans. And in the example you use, you know, during the Great Recession that got dubbed the liar’s loan, right, and it’s not exactly the same, but yet, you know, conceptually, it’s, yeah, that’s the self employed person who’s taking a lot of tax write offs, because our system is weird. And you can take all these tax write offs, but if you’re not going to pay taxes, then the lender doesn’t want to make you the loan on a normal qualified mortgage, so the investors don’t have an appetite to back those products. So therefore, there’s no secondary market to buy those. And so the product pretty much just dries up because no one’s lending for that. Right? That’s right. Okay. And the same is true with jumbo loans. So with jumbo loans, that means the expensive house market is really in jeopardy doesn’t it doesn’t mean that because the dancing has really reduced it’s declined a lot. It has, I would say the jumbo market where we’ve seen the biggest pullback would be from brokers and other lenders that are non non banks. The non bank market has seen that dry up it straight up pretty quick. The big banks and community banks and credit unions are still making those loans. And if you’re a well qualified individual, there is still financing there for you. So I don’t want to paint a picture. That seems like that market is just there is no market. Because there is now how that correlates to housing prices, and specifically, the more expensive homes, your guests is probably better than mine. Well, I say it’s bad news for the more expensive homes because when the financing starts to dry up the sort of the prices, you know, real estate is a credit backed asset. And anything above sort of necessity level housing is going to experience a hard time when there’s just not as much financing in the marketplace for it. We’ll see how that goes. Okay, good. appraisals has been an interesting topic lately. And I’ve read several articles that say funny things, and I’m not exactly sure I understand them. So pardon my ignorance. They say, well, you can do the appraisal four months after the deal closes or something. What is this all about?

Aaron Kopelson 18:49
You know, I read an article on housing wire about that.

Jason Hartman 18:52
I think I read the same article. Yeah,

Aaron Kopelson 18:55
what I took from that article was it was really only designed For, I believe credit unions, it was not a loan that would end up going to either Fannie or Freddie, or a government product like FHA, VA or USDA. So it’s going to be a smaller subset of the market. And yeah, that’s what they were saying they could do it month after now, I don’t participate in that at all. So we won’t necessarily be doing that. But I can speak to what we are doing. And that’s most of the loans that we’re doing as a company I’m doing personally are going to be that a paper or Fannie Freddie product agency product, and that’s the bulk of the marketplace, and what we’re seeing is a lot more appraisal waivers. So what that means is, a lender will initially set a loan up to the application comes in, they’ll fine tune all the numbers and so forth, make sure everything kind of matches, the i’s are dotted, the T’s crossed, and they’ll run it through the automated underwriting system. Now, both Fannie and Freddie have their own underwriting software. And we’ll typically run it through both systems and we’ll see if one of comes back with a with a waiver. What that means is you have a standardized census tract. And either Fannie or Freddie has enough data in that neighborhood. And the overall characteristics of the file, ie the loan to value, the borrower’s credit scores, to income ratios, all the things that make a loan, and they say we feel comfortable with the value that you entered here. Right. And so we’re seeing a lot more waivers. Now. We’ve seen the agency lacks those a little bit because in light of what’s going on with all the help stuff, they’re trying to be as helpful as possible. So I’ve seen that just in the last week or two a lot more of the deals I’ve run through, I believe actually almost every single one has received an appraisal waiver now mind you, a lot of those have been owner occupied deals, right?

Jason Hartman 20:48
But what would you say is the like the percentage of that in the overall market because hearing that just smacks smacks of like a future default problem to me because this We got so reckless with appraisals before the Great Recession. And as I said before, nobody in the mortgage funding system was ever paid to slow things down or to stop things, everybody was just paid to push things forward, meaning the appraisers wanted to bring in the appraisal, the mortgage broker wanted to get the deals done, the real estate agent wanted to get the deal done, you know, the borrower wanted to get the deal done. Nobody was paid to put the brakes on. And look at where we ended up. Right. Sure.

Aaron Kopelson 21:34
Yeah. I mean, there is a lot of truth in that. And so we, you know, lenders have to kind of play by the rules as they are. And so in this environment, they are I think, it’s probably a limited time thing. And I suspect that once that the health thing goes away, we might see that go back to normal standards. By the way, too, when you look at what Fannie and Freddie will allow for On these appraisal waivers, they do limit it to for example, like a, like an 80% loan to value if it’s a primary residence deal. Now for an investor or investment property, they’re not ineligible, so you won’t, you won’t get that. So in other words, you would need to order an appraisal. And I guess we could that segues nicely to if you don’t get the waiver, well then what’s available. And so Fannie and Freddie are now allowing for exterior only appraisals. Sometimes we refer that as a drive appraisal, right? And so they’re not going into the property, but they’re going to drive by the price of the subject property, the home that’s being purchased. They’re going to drive by the comps and comparable sales. And they’re going to do everything that they normally would except go inside the property. So we’re getting, we’re allowed to do that, and in some cases, also what they call a desktop appraisal, and that’s just where you’re gonna have a licensed appraiser who neither you know, they’re not going out into the field and looking at properties and taking photos. They’re doing everything Computer and accessing the MLS and other information sources online. Right, right. And

Jason Hartman 23:05
I do want to say on balance, you know, sort of balancing my last statement is that this is more acceptable today because the market is becoming more of a perfect market. And what I mean by that is that the data has gotten much better as the industry has been maturing, the algorithms have gotten better. The lenders and the appraisers really know how to do it better. They learned a lot from the Great Recession, and you know, so to the regulators, so it’s not as reckless as it might seem. So I just want to kind of buffer my last statement a little bit, but, you know, it also gives rise to concern. So there’s a balance there. That’s all I’m saying.

Aaron Kopelson 23:53
I would add one other thing to that which is I think if you just step back and you go, alright, the person buying this property Probably wouldn’t move for the deal if they thought the property was in bad condition or wasn’t up to their own personal so they

Jason Hartman 24:07
got some skin in the game, they got 20% in the game that makes the lender feel better. That’s right. Yeah.

Aaron Kopelson 24:13
Okay, go ahead. Okay. Something else we’re also noticing is high balance pricing is worse due to market forces. And this has to do with the way that they’re delivered to the agents to Fannie and Freddie. So we’ve seen a big gap between the high balance pricing and the conforming loan amounts.

Jason Hartman 24:30
That is high.

Aaron Kopelson 24:32
That’s right. If we’re doing a agency product and Fannie Freddie long, up to the you’ve got the $510,400 loan limits, that’s going to be the conforming loan. And a high balance is going to be in the high cost areas. They’re going to basically allow the loan amounts to go higher to account for the more expensive homes. So in California, for example, where I’m at or any really of the sand of the coastal markets, you’re going to have pockets where you They kind of fall into that sweet spot. They’re not quite jumbo, but they’re not the normal conforming loan limits, that sort of high bounce. We do a lot of that in my market. And so we’re just seeing a dislocation in the prices. And that’s just I think it’s noteworthy. That’s all.

Jason Hartman 25:15
Okay, good. Good to know. And again, that won’t really apply to our investors, but it might apply for their personal residence if they own their personal residence. And it’s a you know, more expensive property. Sure.

Aaron Kopelson 25:27
Now, in terms of tightening that we’re kind of seeing going on, applied to That’s right. That’s right. So mortgage insurance, something that I saw recently come out is for investment properties. Two of the big mortgage insurers radian and M gic are no longer allowing for mortgage insurance on investment properties. So your clients that were previously doing the 15% down now, I don’t know how many of your clients are actually doing that. But that’s shrinking quit right. Okay. So

Jason Hartman 25:55
it’s really back that was short lived. Boy, I tell you, that didn’t As long at all as back to 20 25%,

Aaron Kopelson 26:02
right? That’s right. And you see a lot of the investors, you know, 25%, kind of that sweet spot to get that bump in the game of that lower rate. And 20% obviously being the marker for not having mortgage insurance, of course,

Jason Hartman 26:14
so that the market or 15% down is, is very small now, and maybe probably drying up completely. All right.

Aaron Kopelson 26:22
That’s right. Second mortgages. I think this is also somewhat noteworthy, we’re seeing investors suspend the closed in the home equity loans, which is different from a home equity line of credit, also known as a keylock. We’re just seeing investors pull out of that. And if you think about it, He alone is going to have a fixed rate fixed term. And so it puts more of the interest rate risk on the lender. And when they offer a line of credit, that line is going to be tied to the prime rate. And that’s going to basically shift the interest rate risk to the consumer.

Jason Hartman 26:55
Well, I’m just wondering really do the bank season view that there’s any interest rate risk and This environment, the rates are so low, they might even go negative people say, you know, I wonder if they really even think that’s much of a risk? I don’t know depends on how long the term is of that mortgage of that he locker he said, but rising, so he locks are adjustable. He loans are fixed, right?

Aaron Kopelson 27:20
That’s right. Got it. And so the adjustable rate, that’s the components are, you know, you got the margin, you got the index, and then you have your cap. And so most lines of credit on homes are tied to the prime rate. And so that rates can adjust up or down with what the feds do with the Fed funds rate because the prime rate is 300 basis points or 3%. Above the Fed funds rate. So they came out and said today, they’re going to be keeping rates low for a really long time. It’s probably we’re probably going to be in my view in a low interest rate environment for quite some time right

Jason Hartman 27:57
now one thing and you may not know the answer to this because It’s not really your side of a business, I don’t think. But on the heat rocks, I would imagine that those he locks unused portions of he locks are getting recalled, meaning that if a borrower has a $100,000 he lock on their property, and they’ve only used $20,000 of that he lock, the lender will send them a letter saying, hey, guess what? We know we said you had $100,000 available, but because you haven’t used it, we’re going to shrink it to 50,000. Have you heard of any of that happening?

Aaron Kopelson 28:38
No, I haven’t heard of that. What I was going to say though, is I’ve heard of some big banks like chase are no longer offering key locks to as a product. They’ve temporarily suspended it. They just completely

Jason Hartman 28:48
No, I think that whole line of business. Wow.

Aaron Kopelson 28:51
Yeah, I think when you look at that, and you ask yourself, Well, why would they do that? I suspect they’re getting obviously getting defensive and they’re trying to hang on to as much Capital their reserves as possible. So they’re just taking somewhat of a defensive posture there. But the lenders that we work with that offer these lines of credit, we have seen them raise the new minimum credit scores. And then also in some cases, reducing the LTV, that combined loan to value so that clients consumers are just not getting as high leverage, meaning they’re either gonna have more skin in the game, if it’s a purchase or on a cash out, they’re not going to be able to get quite as much cash out. Right, right.

Jason Hartman 29:28
Very interesting. So the Oh II verification of employment. This one a lot of people have heard about, but in a less stable environment, like we’re in the lenders really want to know, you’re keeping your job and things may have changed since 3045 days ago when you applied for this loan, versus when you’re ready to close right. Tell us more.

Aaron Kopelson 29:53
That’s right. Well, it used to be you know, before the whole health scare when the with the virus Fannie and Freddie would require lenders to do a verbal verification within 10 business days prior to the note date. And actually, let me back up a step. It’s a wage earners. I’m sorry, yeah, that’s for wage earners employed folks, they would require the verification of employment to be done 120 calendar days for those folks. So they just tighten those up now. So what we’re seeing is that like at our company, we’re doing it literally just the day before, before we send out the docs for both employed borrowers and self employed borrowers. Okay, so they’re gonna verify employment, right at the

Jason Hartman 30:34
end. That’s the basic

Aaron Kopelson 30:36
message here. Right? That’s right. And they’ve just tightened up that that timeframe. So which kind of makes sense, right, because, you know, you might have a job today and not

Jason Hartman 30:44
not tomorrow. Right. That’s understandable on the lenders part. FHA, VA USDA. I still I gotta tell you, Aaron, I you still can’t get over talking about USDA when it comes to mortgage financing. I want to think of that as The entity that inspects meat. Okay. There’s a USDA stamp, but they’re into loans as well. So what does this mean? overlays? What’s an overlay?

Aaron Kopelson 31:12
Yeah. So overlays is you have the the government products, FHA, VA, USDA, and they set the policies. So it’s almost like the IRS comes out and writes the tax code that everybody follows will these entities HUD come down and say, This is the policy manual that we want all lenders to follow? What lenders have the ability to do is create an overlay, which means that they can create more restrictive standards, meaning they want to be more conservative. And so we’re just seeing more of that now, which makes sense, right? And this environment where there’s a lot of unknowns, there’s a lot seems to be a lot more questions and answers these days with a lot of things the lenders are just saying, All right, let’s raise the minimum credit score requirements. They may In some cases, reduce the total, you know, the debt to income ratio, and in some cases may want the the borrower to have reserves. So reserves would just be, how much money are you going to have at the end of the transaction? You know, in a purchase example, after you’ve brought in your closing costs, if your closing costs and your down payment, right, so for a long time there, there really was none of that. And now we’re saying,

Jason Hartman 32:27
Yeah, good to know. So HUD can come out and say, these are our guidelines. But then other, I’ll just say groups, entities, whatever, can say, Well, those may be their guidelines, but ours are a little tighter than that. So we’ll wrap it all up for us with you know, either maybe your just your sum total kind of take on the market, what’s the overall vibe, or where are we going? What are we going to see, you know, a few months from now?

Aaron Kopelson 32:57
Well, a lot of this in the short term has to to do with what the government decides to do with helping out mortgage servicers, this is creating a strain. And there’s there’s just a level of uncertainty out there. So I think once lenders have more assurance of what the government’s going to do, and also the health impact, the Fallout, you know, how bad does unemployment get? A big question is, you know, how many people that lost their job are going to be brought back, you know, right back after the company gets the loan, the PPP loan, all of these things have to sort of get worked out to have any clear path. And that’s going to take some time to figure out I think, month and month, in my mind, at least Yeah,

Jason Hartman 33:40
yep. I agree with you. I agree with you. And the thing we haven’t mentioned is that the rates with which you can borrow are incredibly attractive. So we’ve been talking mostly about the negative stuff, how much harder it is, and you know how the lenders are tightening up and making it a little you got to jump through some more hoops, etc. etc except for appraisals that’s a little easier actually. But we didn’t really talk about rates much and maybe you want to make a comment on that and give out your website.

Aaron Kopelson 34:08
Yeah, I think for any you know that your clientele the investor, I think most of your your clients are quality borrowers, they’ve got good jobs are they run successful businesses, most of these folks are going to be able to get through the process just fine. And they’re going to be able to capture incredibly low rates. So I think you know, for those that follow your recipe for success, which is is buying in good markets where the deal makes sense day one, you’re buying for cash flow, you’re locking in 30 year fixed rate mortgage, most likely in the threes, that is phenomenal when you consider you know, the net cost of the money when you subtract out inflation, and the the tax deduction of the mortgage. So all of those things are incredibly powerful and I think there still is a lot of opportunity out there for investors. And I’m excited to see kind of what this decade brings. And I’m looking personally to keep in my eye out for deals, or the next year or two and kind of see what opportunities come our way as investors because I think it’s going to be while there may be pain for some, like you say, crisis, you know, it’s it’s a double edged sword. It’s, it’s pain for some, but for those that are well positioned, it’s going to be amazing opportunity for them. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 35:28
I couldn’t agree with you more, you know, like the Chinese say that symbol of crisis and opportunity are the same. And it means translated literally, it means crisis is an opportunity riding the dangerous wind. So that’s where we are. I think that yeah, that fits our situation pretty well. So the opportunities are definitely there. Aaron, give out your website.

Aaron Kopelson 35:52
Yeah, my website is wholesome team. That’s, I’m sure you can link to that in the show notes. It’s a little bit of a mouthful, but cohesive team calm And you can find out more stuff, sir.

Jason Hartman 36:03
All right. Aaron Colson. Thank you so much for the info. And thanks for joining us and you’re an investor. So I’m going to say to you happy investing.

Aaron Kopelson 36:10
Thank you, Jason.

Jason Hartman 36:16
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