YW 93 – America’s Gen Y Youth and Will America Fail with Ryan Houck

YW 93 – America’s Gen Y Youth and Will America Fail with Ryan Houck

Jason Hartman introduces Ryan Houck to the show to talk about generation Y. Ryan Houck is the founder of Free Market America as well as the author of Will America Fail?. He shares some very interesting insights into the world of environment regulation and then Jason and Ryan talk about some of the key characteristics our Gen Y population has and why it makes them so unique compared to everybody else.

Key Takeaways:

1:30 – Ryan talks a little bit about Free Market America and their mission.
8:00 – A lot of sketchy things are happening between the EPA and environmental groups.
16:40 – The oldest millennials are around 34 years old right now.
21:55 – GOP needs to give up on the social issues and strictly focus on running the country.
27:15 – Millennial parents provided a ‘you can do anything’ attitude and that’s one of the reason why millennials are unique.
29:30 – The mentality of the 80s was to make a lot of money, quit the rat race, buy a boat.
32:05 – The US is unique because the country constantly tries to reinvent itself.

 

Tweetables:
“Gen Y are more cautious investors, likely to differentiate between an investment and an expense.”

“The problem is that conservatives can’t figure out a way to talk to millennials.”

“When are we going to see a cool young person running for president that’s conservative?”

 

Mentioned In This Episode:
Will America Fail? By Ryan Houck
FreeMarketAmerica.org
@FreeMarket_US

 

Transcript:

Jason Hartman:
It’s my pleasure to welcome Ryan Houck to the show. He is head of the national free market watchdog group Free Market America and author of Will America Fail?: The Case for Hope. Ryan, welcome, how are you?

Ryan Houck:
Good, good to be with you, Jason.

Jason:
It’s good to have you and give our listeners a sense of a geography. Where are you located?

Ryan:
I’m coming to you today from sunny Orlando, Florida.

Jason:
Orlando, Florida. The Disney empire and ground zero for the foreclosure crisis a few years back.

Ryan:
Yep, that’s absolutely true. Yep.

Jason:
So, tell us about Free Market America. What’s the group all about, when was it founded and are you the founder as well?

Ryan:
Yes, I’m the president of Free Market America, founded it with a number of others, but the mission is relatively simple to service as a free market watchdog. Now, our focus was originally exclusively on environment issues and we’ve seen broaden our reach to include other free market oriented issues, but we started because of deep seeded concern over the excessive regulator burden when it comes to environmental issues. Some of your listeners I’m sure already know that independent assessments of (#1:59?) and scope of regulation in the United States costs some where in the neighborhood of a trillion dollars every year to our economy. Environmental regulation makes it the single greatest piece of pie, but about 281 billion dollars.

Jason:
That, I gotta stop you there. That is fascinating. I have long complained about the environment movement not being what it pretends to be. In fact, there is an interesting saying and you’ve probably heard it, maybe you’ve said it, and it is, “Green trees have red roots.” The environmental movement is really, at the heart of it, it’s a way to control the population and it’s a way to have like preemptive search warrants where basically the government because it has the rights to literally any body of water, okay, you might own a property with a tiny little late or a puddle, and the government says, oh, we get to come in there, maybe there’s a little stream, we get to come in and inspect that and make sure, you know, everything’s good. It’s like a preemptive search warrant.

Ryan:
You know, you’re right. I think, look, it’s fair to say everybody wants clean water and everybody wants clean air and we…

Jason:
Except, c’mon, republicans don’t want that, do they? I’m joking. Republicans don’t have children.

Ryan:
That’s right or breathe air for that matter.

Jason:
Right, they don’t breath. They don’t drink water.

Ryan:
What I think we’re really criticizing is the environmental movement catapult past common sense and that’s what it does and it disproportionately harms small business. They pay an average of $4,000 per worker to comply with environmental costs whether they know it or not and that cost is much reduced for larger businesses, which have sophisticated compliance mechanisms like accounts and lawyers and so forth who are, you know, who interface with regulators much more directly. Like I’ve said, we all want clean water and clean air, but the idea that the federal government should be able regulate it roadside drainage ditch to the same level that it regulates a pristine river or stream is absurd. The idea that the EPA can unilaterally ban wood-burning stoves in the Mid West because it decided to unilaterally interpret the clean air act is deeply troubling and what is most troubling of all is how environmental groups have created a cottage industry by suing the EPA, the EPA quickly settles out of court and in so doing creates a backdoor to essentially legislate through the court room, through the regulator process.

Jason:
In other words, through precedent setting case law is the way they’re basically creating new law, they, you know, it should be congress creating the law, right?

Ryan:
You’re right, it’s not even just, it’s not even just precedent setting, they usually, the way it now works is that the EPA will get sued by an environmental organization and then gleefully reach at settlement.

Jason:
Right, right, so explain that mechanisms for a moment, I’m sorry to interpret, but basically what happens here it sounds like is the environmental group, say Green Peace for example or whatever, sues the EPA saying you’re not enforcing the rule, you know, is that what happens?

Ryan:
Right, they’ll say, the way it works is an environmental organization and you can name any one, there are hundreds of them and there are some big really funded ones that have operating budgets in the tens and even hundreds of million dollars a year. They sit on enormous foundations and have a legion of lawyers who can do their bidding, so they set their sights on a particular regulatory component that they would enforce more astringently.

They usually sue as part of the clear water act/clear air act, something along those lines and they say, you’re not enforcing this correctly. What this really means is that the federal government under the clean water act needs to have total control over roadside drainage ditches, lakes, rivers, streams in all parts of the country at all times, no matter the size including down to small puddles. I know it sounds absurd and that’s because it is a absurd.

The EPA, what you’d expect the EPA to do is defend congressional intent and defend its original mandate, instead the EPA does is settle out of court and that settlement creates a settlement agreement and that agreement, so in many cases the judge doesn’t issue a ruling. What happens is the agreement becomes a basis for what is effectively new law. No legislation has been passed, no legislation has been altered, all that’s happened is the EPA has agreed that the party is suing it to effectively change the law. It’s called the sue and settle.

Jason:
I’m surprised that a settlement creates new law though. I thought you had the litigation, someone had to win and lose, and then it had to be taken to an appellate court to set law.

Ryan:
What happens with the settlement is they arrive at what is called a consent agreement, so they do take it to court, but the judges don’t actually rule in favor of one part or the other. The EPA settles out of court, essentially…

Jason:
Yeah, to consent decree, yeah.

Ryan:
Yeah, there’s a consent agreement between the litigants and the result is kind of a new rule or a new order that details how this particular regulation is going to be enforced in the future and of course, it’s inevitably a much more aggressive fashion that disproportionately harms, you know, small home owners, small business.

Jason:
Listen, I mean, can you imagine the kind of back door conversations that may well and probably do go on here? Some environmental group will come to the EPA, they have friends there, of course, they’ll say, hey look, you know, we’re thinking we’ve got to help you be more strict on this issue, so what do you say we sue you and then we’ll plan on a settlement and it all gets – it’s under the guys like, you know, it’s being legislated through the courts and there’s some precedence set, but really it’s just a scam.

Ryan:
To be, we don’t even have to speculate, a lot of evidence has recently emerged that the EPA new carbon emissions rule which will, it comes dangerously close to outlawing coal all together and it is going to, I mean, it’s going to cost tens of thousands of jobs particularly in the south and it turns out that this rule, much of it was written by an environmental organization. There’s also a lot of what you might call incest between EPA and environmental groups.

You look at top brass at the EPA or top brass at some of these environmental organizations you will find that there’s a lot, there’s a revolving door between EPA and these organizations that frequently sue EPA, so yeah, I mean, I think we can speculate, it’s probably much deeper than we know, but what we know is bad enough.

Jason:
So, in other words what you’re saying is that the people that work at the EPA go to work for the law firm and vice versus, they trade back and forth, right?

Ryan:
Correct, correct.

Jason:
The same thing happens on Wall Street. It’s so disgusting, because basically what happens is, you know, someone will go to work maybe originally they’re an idealistic, they want to help the public and do the right thing and they’ll go to work for the Securities and Exchange Commission, the SEC, otherwise known as the scoundrels encouragement commission and they’ll go to work there and they will audit a company and, you know, a publicly traded company and they’ll say, oh, you’re not doing this right or, you know, a brokerage firm or whatever, they go in there and somehow they will later end up working for that company, you know, they’ll get hired away, and probably the subtleties that go on there are things like this, you know, boy, how long have you been an auditor for the SEC, the CEO of the company says or whatever, right. You’re good at your job, maybe you should apply here, and of course their salary just quadruples when they go to work for the company, so somehow, the company gets off, right.

Ryan:
You know, I’m not saying that if you work at a regulator you should never work in the private sector or vice versus. I’m simple saying that it’s troubling to see how much the top brass of these agencies and these environmental organizations seem to cross pollinate. It doesn’t seem like they have much of a business perspective at all represented at the EPA and that’s problematic. There means there’s no economic analysis being done before they promulgate regulations. I mean, they’re just kind of deciding that this is the way it’s going to be and no one is considering the jobs consequences of the broader economic consequences.

Jason:
Okay, so, I don’t want to make this all about the environmental thing, because we’ve got some other stuff to hear that’s really good and really important, but just one more thing I did want to ask you before we move on and change gears a little bit is you mentioned earlier that it costs small business and I agree with you by the way that small businesses and farmers and so forth, they are hit disproportionately with this kind of regulation. The big businesses, they can afford, they can handle it, they’ve got systems, and also they tend to get the easy road off because they have lobbyists and everything else, right, and the regulators, they look for the easy target to advice their career, that just goes without saying, it happens, but you mentioned $4,000 per year in compliance per employee, so you know, you got a small business, you have eight employees, just a tiny little business, how does it cost that $4,000 a year? Can you give any examples of that?

Ryan:
You know disproportionately impacts businesses. If you work at a professional services firm it’s unlikely that you’re paying much in the form of these types of environmental regulations except in energy costs and so forth, you know, secondary, tertiary costs that are passed on you as a user of services where you’re more likely to encounter them if you’re in farmer or if you’re in contracting or construction and you’re actually doing something where you’re building something or farming something or growing, mining something, something along those lines and that’s where these costs are likely to be disproportionately encountered by small businesses. It’s really everything.

It’s simply compliance costs, complying with the legal or account requirements, it’s also, you know, costs when you’re moving or displacing earth, things of that nature, and they get more intense obviously the more likely you are to be involved in something that intersects or cross cuts with the environment, but we all pay it at some degree, at some level.

Jason:
Yeah, we definitely do. It’s all baked into the cake, if you will. Okay, so let’s switch gears a little bit here. You have a big focus and for a good reason on the largest demographic cohort in American history and that is the millennials, the generation Y, which is slightly larger than the baby boomers most experts would say by about 4 million, baby boomers being around 76 millions, generation Y being around 80 million, and generation Y is coming of age and they’re coming of age quickly. They’re starting to move through the economy and make an impact. People have referred to generation Y and someways rightfully so as the most catered to generation in world history and spoiled, entitled, maybe lazy, what do you say about some of these criticisms?

Ryan:
It’s funny, I get the joke on millennials and I know what the media things of them, a bunch of hoody-wearing tech-addled narcissistic nitwits addicted to over generous doses of parental charity and I suppose perfectly content to play Mindcraft and eat Hotpockets all day from the comfort of their parents basement and you having spent time at ASU, you know they’re all armed with the very expensive Russian lit degrees and there over abundance of participation trophies.

Jason:
You mean, people aren’t hiring for Russian lit?

Ryan:
I don’t know why it’s such a desirable field.

Jason:
Along with that, just throw in feminist studies. There’s lots of jobs on Craigslist for that one, right.

Ryan:
Exactly. Well, look, since the dawn of recorded time people have been grumbling about this further down the generational totem pole. You’ll literally find references to these types of things in ancient Greek literature and the Bible and fortunately technology has handed the megaphone to some of my generation’s biggest morons and now we have TV shows about them, but a lot of people would never guessed that boomers would cut their hand and toss out the tie-dyes and stop voting for George McGovern and they still listen to the Rolling Stones, but they also listen to Jason Hartman, they listen to Glenn Beck, they listen to Rush Limbaugh, and they elected Ronald Reagan. The key to understanding these millennials is the great recession.

You can’t understand them if you don’t understand the great recession, because the generation that went in isn’t the generation that came out. It made them more frugal, they save for retirement younger than their parents, they have less credit card debt, they’re more cautious investors, more likely to differentiate between an investment and an expense and they’re more likely to invest in themselves. They’re ten points more likely than other generations to say they own or aim to own a business in the next few years and that’s, those are kind of underling signs in the data that are very encouraging long term. This generation is still very much in it’s infancy because the oddest millennials are 34 years old. They don’t reach their peak spending years until they’re 46. Boomers reached their peaked spending years in 2006, 2007.

Jason:
How did you say the oldest millennials were now?

Ryan:
34. It’s typically consider those born between 1980 and 2000, so in terms of their voting years..

Jason:
It’s a little bit of a moving target.

Ryan:
Yeah, it is. It’s interesting, millennials are more likely to say businesses strike a fair balance between profits and public interest, more likely to say businesses pay their fair share of taxes, and these are, these are things that surprised me when I did my research, because this was the same generation that had said, it was more mandible to socialism than capitalism and when you dig deeper into the research and when you learn about their experiences with Barrack Obama and the white house in the last six years, we start to paint a different picture. So, I began writing my book as a pessimist and truly ended it as an optimist.

Jason:
Would you agree with some analysis that generation Y put Obama in office?

Ryan:
Oh, I think it’s absolutely true particularly in 2012. I think in 2008 they voted for Barrack Obama and 2012 they were the only ones to stick with him. I really think they voted against Mitt Romney more than anything else, but yeah, it’s absolutely true.

Jason:
What’s interesting though is that millennial like Ron Paul, you know, there’s lots of Ron Paul support on college campuses, which is cool.

Ryan:
You would find, you would find something of a libertarian streak running through this generation. I mean, they are, these are the kids that flavor their own sodas, design their own sneakers, and build their playlists, they’re all about personal freedom. I’ll tell ya what’s really interesting, Jason, is that when I started, I got really interested in looking at how liberal millennials became and identified as liberal and I can tell you, a generation gap has emerged within the democrat party that looks like a partisan cap. It’s so big on some interesting issues.

So, older self-identified liberals sound like actual liberals. They say the things we expect liberals to say. They say government should do more to solve problems, they blame poverty on circumstances, they think Washington should do more the needy even if it means more debt, but majority of young self-identified liberals disagree on all of these points and that is surprising that they can disagree on these points and yet call themselves liberal. I think the reason for that is many of these millennials misidentify themselves politically. They define their politics based on narrow social matters because in 2012 we had this idiot issues. The idiot issue is the issue that everyone knows about it even if you don’t know anything about politics and that was gay marriage and so, you had a lot of millennial who were saying they were in favor of same-sex marriage and they supposed that made them a liberal.

So, I think a lot of them misidentified as a result and if conservatives can find away to talk to this generation, I believe we have, there are a lot of conservative principles that are in tune with the millennials generational culture.

Jason:
Yeah, the problem is that conservatives can’t figure out a way to talk to them. Conservatives are terrible at campaigning and the media certainty isn’t helping them. So, what are they going to do? I mean, it’s like when are we going to see a cool, young person, I’m going to say not guy, I almost said guy, a cool young person running for president that’s conservative?

Ryan:
You know, I don’t know. That’s the real question. I don’t know if it’s 2016, I don’t know if it’s 2020. We’re about due, we’re about due for a generational candidate. We as conservatives need to appreciate and we do not appreciate enough because we’re so, we’re so upset right now. Things are, there’s so much doom and gloom, so much despair. It’s so difficult to be optimistic. We did not realize how much of gift we’ve been handed in the last few years, because Barrack Obama was suppose to be FDR and it’s still hard to remember in 2009 how high the expectations were for him, but no President has ever set expectations so high or fear to deliver them so spectacularly and that is the signature of political event for the lives of these young millennials who voted for him and now across the board on issue after issue, you’ll find that trust for government is down, trust in the free market is up, belief in, you know, taxes and the need to tax more and spend more is down, the belief in the efficiency of government is down at the same time got millennials seeing – and they’d watched these tech entrepreneurs changed the world while they realized Washington changed a light bulb and it’s affected them.

So, I don’t know what exactly the candidates are going to look like, I do have a sense of what they’re going to sound like, though. They’re going to recognize this generation, just like this century, are built on the idea of personal freedom and the Bloombergs and the Obamas of the world, they are dinosaurs. We got to emphasis the choice to base elements of our philosophy. The second thing we’ve got to do and principles don’t come from polls, there shouldn’t be jettisoned in the name of political expediency and we may differ on this issue, but I think we’ve got to ask ourselves if the GOP view on same-sex marriage is consistent with our commitment, the idea of limited government and personal freedom, because that’s the question millennials are asking.

Jason:
If you ask me, the GOP just needs to give up the social issues. It’s just, it’s a dinosaur agenda. It doesn’t work. There are never going to win the war if they keep messing around these dumb little battles. I mean, it’s just, you know, Mitt Romney, I mean, think about it, Mitt Romney is a turnaround specialist. The country is in an economic mess, he’s an executive, he’s a CEO, I mean, what guy could be more qualified. I think we got to look at the country like a corporation. It all really comes down to running the country like a good business like a good company should be run, and Romney would be the perfect guy like that, but you get stick on these social issues, you know, it’s just, I don’t know.

Ryan:
I agree with you. I think we’ve gotta, like I said, I don’t think we should jettison our principles in favor of polls, but I think we should prepare for not just the possibility but the inevitability that by the 2030s there’s going to be republican candidates who are for balanced budgets, lower taxes, more freeing markets, and same-sex marriage and they’re going to have an R next to their name and that is, that is just going to come because the DNA of the party is going to change as millennials age. There will soon makeup almost 40% of the (#23:22?) even if they’re disproportionately democrat and they are now. They’re going to exert influence on both parties and the platforms of both parties will need to evolve as a result. I think over the long term, we’ll be equally untenable for democrats to remain rigidly opposed to entitlement reformed because 86% of millennials say they favor some sort of privatization of social security, some form of personal account. That’s an enormous and almost unfathomable number because no other generation comes anywhere close to that number.

Jason:
Is because millennials don’t, wisely, they don’t trust the government and they shouldn’t. Look at, I mean, the government has a terrible track record, why should they be trusted?

Ryan:
It’s a lot of things. They don’t think it’s going to be there for them. They don’t trust government to do it. They don’t trust big in general, big government, big labor, big business, and I think most importantly they, going back to this idea, this kind of undercurrent with this generation is that it’s really about personal freedom . This idea that, wait, you’re saying, I’m not going to be able to invest in my own retirement, not going to make this decision for myself, you mean the government is just going to cut me a check? I think there’s, this is a generation that doesn’t even understand what a pension is. I mean, a lot of boomers complain they didn’t have pensions, because they were switching over to 401ks. That’s like a unicorn to millennials, there aren’t pensions around. This is a frugal 401k generation that distrusts everything that’s big. I don’t think liberals can trust that they own this generation and if they do, we would be foolish to believe them.

Jason:
Yeah, good points, I agree. I agree. So, millennials. I mean, obviously they’re the most tech savvy generation. What do you think about their level of ambition and, I mean look it, I’m a gen x-er so I’m kind of in this middle generation that was very small, there’s baby boomer before me, and then gen x and then gen y. I mean, there are very smart. You know, they really know a lot of stuff. I look back to how I was at that age, when I was 20-21 years old. I didn’t know all that stuff that they know. You know, of course it’s the internet, I didn’t have the internet at the time, but they are just very aware of a lot of things.

Ryan:
You know, this is one of the things Jason that I was most surprised by, because there is this prevailing mentality about millennials and there’s so much about what people say about millennials is close, but not exactly on the mark and I think, I think in the difference between being close and on the mark, is everything. I mean, we have hear these stories, you know, the young job applicant who brings his mom with him to an interview, the over confidence meat head with the popped collar who asks for a raise and a promotion within the first weeks of a new gig, the 20 something food stamp recipient. The list goes on and on and as I’ve said, unfortunately technology, which has been a godsend in many ways, has handed a megaphone to some of my generation’s biggest idiots and others, but I think about it in terms of this participation trophy, right, the much dreaded participation trophy.

Jason:
Yes, everybody gets a trophy, because everybody’s a winner, right?

Ryan:
Right, by the way, did they have those when you were, you know, playing little league soccer and baseball and everything?

Jason:
Yeah, they did. They had a sportsmanship trophy for, you know..

Ryan:
I played soccer when I was a little kid, seven or eight years or something like that. I don’t think I ever scored a goal, I’m not kidding you, but I always had participation trophies and I never really believed that I was any good at soccer while I watched my friends run circles around me. Those stupid trophies were easily won, easily forgot, and they made me want the real thing to do something that I was good at and that’s the thing the millennial parents gave them that was unique and it has had draw backs and advantages, but they told us we could do anything and we believed them. We believe that if we wanted to become doctors or astronauts, and we’d go do that. That’s lead to many unhappy collisions between expectations and reality, particularly when the recession set in.

These kids got out of college with their student debt and their very expensive degrees and whatever the heck it was they wanted to do with their life, Russian lit, feminist studies, so forth, but that’s the American dream too, isn’t it and sometimes expectations shape reality and that is created some of my generations most brilliant entrepreneurs who formed intensely dynamic companies that are already changing the world. So, sometimes you got this blender of unmet expectations, but it’s the same reason you’ve got all these millennials saying they’re dying to start a business. They want to do something meaningful for them. Their object of their ambition is not the social movement, the political campaign as it was for prior generations, it is the small business, and that is an enormous opportunity if our economy gets back on its feet, I think we could see an exposure of this type of entrepreneurship. I don’t know that every office flunky is going to quit his day job, but I think it bodes well for the economy in the long term.

Jason:
I do too. There’s a lot of creativity in the millennial generation, There’s a lot ambition based on passion, based around things that they are actually interested in and it’s not really just like a money thing, you know, it seems like maybe for other groups it was more of a money deal. Sort of like the 80s movie that typified sort of the 80s Wall Street, like just go work on Wall Street. Now, granted, certainty there are millennials that go work on Wall Street too and I call Wall Street the modern version of organized crime, but that’s another discussion. It’s not just about that, they want to do something creative and something that’s actually going to have an impact and I love that about the millennial generation.

Ryan:
You know, I think you really just hit the nail on the head with that, Jason. I couldn’t agree with you more. You even said it. The 80s. The mentality of the 80s was make a lot of money, quit the rat race, buy the boat.

Jason:
I remember bumper sticker that said, you know, “He who dies with the most toys wins.” In the 80s. It was just sort of such a shallow culture, you know.

Ryan:
That was absolutely the mentality and so, I mean, say what you will of that. I’m not going to, you know, cast dispersions on prior generations. I think there’s plenty of blame and plenty of credit to go around, but with millennials it’s all about investing in themselves. The money they make they reinvest in their own companies. You seem them doing it all the time. It’s why Mark Zuckerberg didn’t cash out. It’s why these people, you know, these tech billionaires in particular all they want to do with their money is gain greater control over the thing they want to do with their lives.

So, you’ve got these, you got these kids who were raised and encouraged by their parents and, you know, look, I’m something of a disciplinarian and so I’m very skeptical of the score-less soccer games and the participation trophies and I don’t think those are good, but one of the things that I do think was good was the, you know, go chase your dreams mentality. I mean, there’s going to be plenty of time for reality and those millennials with their Russian lit degrees working as breweries at Starbucks are experiencing reality, but I think it’s great that a lot of them came out with dreams and that some of them managed to make them a reality, because it’s made our world better.

Jason:
Right, yeah. Absolutely. Well, you know, it just reminds me of that Steve Job’s quote, you know, in the Apple commercial about the people who, the only ones who change the world…here’s to the crazy ones, you know the one, yeah, so that’s true. Very good. Very good points. Well, hey, give out your website Ryan and tell people where they can get the book.

Ryan:
You can get the book Barnes & Noble, Amazon. I’d go buy it on Amazon, it’s called Will America Fail? Just type it into the queue on Amazon, it should come up right away. Our website is FreeMarketAmerica.org and our Twitter handle is @FreeMarket_US.

Jason:
I just wanted to stress that’s .org. So, it’s FreeMarketAmerica.Org and just, you know, parting thoughts?

Ryan:
I’ve encountered a lot of boomers and a lot of members of older generations who, you know, they want to give up. I grew tired of despair, I grew tired of the doom and gloom, this dark and desperate spell that’s crept our conservative movement and I think we need to remember is that ours is the most dynamic country in human history. The only to constantly reinvent itself and we’re reinventing ourselves again right now. Even the toughest cynic and the most hard headed pessimistic has to acknowledge that we’ll have an easier time reviving this country then our founders had building it and they persevered in the face of seemingly impossible odds. What right do we have to give up in the face of problems that we can solve.

Jason:
Yeah, good points. I love that. Great message. Ryan, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a fascinating discussion and everybody should visit FreeMarketAmerica.org. Thanks again for being on.

Ryan:
Thanks Jason.

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